Top 25 Catchers

[leecemark]

--This is a chornological list off the top of my head, which came up to 31 No doubt I've missed someone who others would consider a top 25 candidate. Please feel free to add them, discuss my nominees and go ahead a come up with a top 25 in order if you are ready and interested.

Deacon White
Cal McVey
Charlie Bennett
Buck Ewing
Roger Bresnahan
Johnny Kling
Luis Santop
Wally Schang
Biz Mackey
Gabby Hartnett
Mickey Cochrane
Josh Gibson
Bill Dickey
Ernie Lombardi
Walker Cooper
Roy Campanella
Yogi Berra
Elston Howard
Joe Torre
Bill Freehan
Johnny Bench
Thurman Munson
Ted Simmons
Carlton Fisk
Gary Carter
Lance Parrish
Bob Boone
Ivan Rodriguez
Mike Piazza
Jorge Posada
Joe Mauer

--Checking Bill James New Historical Abstract; he listed Darrell Porter (18), Gene Tenace (23), Tim McCarver (24) and Darren Daulton (25) who didn't make my rough draft. Of those, its possible Porter would make my list, although he would be a 5th whose career was centered in the 1970s which seems alot for a top 25 covering 140 years of baseball history.

[1905 Giants]

Glad to see you added Kling. I heard stories that he was spectacular with the pitching staff.

[westsidegrounds]

Well, there's this one guy ...

"Of the catchers that I have seen, __________ stands pre-eminent." Ty Cobb

"_________ got more out of his pitchers than any other catcher in history." Babe Ruth

"The Win Shares system sees him as deserving the AL Gold Glove at catcher [a total of 9 times]." Bill James

"___________ may have been the greatest defensive catcher in baseball history." Wm. F. McNeil (author of Backstop: A History of the Catcher and a Sabermetric Ranking of 50 All-Time Greats.)

[dgarza]

I know he didn't play a majority of his games as Catcher, and he played more RF, but I always find it hard not to mention Mike King Kelly in these Catcher discussions.

I also have Jason Kendall in the discussion.

Would not be surprised to see Brian Downing, Javy Lopez, Gene Tenace, or Darrell Porter somehow worked into others' lists.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

This book would be a good read for this thread.

Backstop cover.JPG

Here are some excerpts from the book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=xUt...page&q&f=false


And here is the author's summary.

Backstop-Summary.JPG

[9RoyHobbsRF]

In over 2200 games played, Joe Torre was a C for 903 of them

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I cant say I agree with Gabby Hartnett being the best all aound catcher and Johnny Bench being the 7th best.

[westsidegrounds]

This book would be a good read for this thread.

Cool, thanks!

[dgarza]

This book would be a good read for this thread.

This looks like a good resource, except I can only roll my eyes at any "history" that only accounts for 2/3 of history.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

"Of the catchers that I have seen, __________ stands pre-eminent." Ty Cobb

"_________ got more out of his pitchers than any other catcher in history." Babe Ruth

"The Win Shares system sees him as deserving the AL Gold Glove at catcher [a total of 9 times]." Bill James

"___________ may have been the greatest defensive catcher in baseball history." Wm. F. McNeil (author of Backstop: A History of the Catcher and a Sabermetric Ranking of 50 All-Time Greats.)

Is that the notoriously underrated and forgotten about Ray Schalk?

[toomanyhatz]

Too early to include Brian McCann in the discussion? I presume it won't be by the time he's done if it is now.

Also, where do you (and James) rate Tom Haller?

[leecemark]

--I don't really have a long enough list to include Haller, but I'd be surprised if I could be convinced he is top 25. James had him 26th in the BJNHBA. As for Schalk I think he was more or less an earlier version of Bob Boone. Boone made my offhand list of 31 above, but probably won't make my top 25 at the conclusion of this thread.

[toomanyhatz]

As I said elsewhere, Schalk to me has almost identical value to Mike Scioscia, the differences being more speed and less power. I suppose the era Schalk played in makes his defense more important, but other than that they're similar.

Just curious about Haller, I suspect I'd agree with where you put him. I think of him as a slightly worse contemporary of Bill Freehan, I just have more personal recongnition of him since he was both a Giant and a Dodger.

[Jackaroo Dave]

This looks like a good resource, except I can only roll my eyes at any "history" that only accounts for 2/3 of history.

Especially since the first third was when catching was the most challenging. But I can see the rationale that catching before the early 1900s was so different that it deserves its own book. (And that a sabremetric approach would be risibly incomplete, given the data availability.)

[Jackaroo Dave]

As I said elsewhere, Schalk to me has almost identical value to Mike Scioscia, the differences being more speed and less power. I suppose the era Schalk played in makes his defense more important, but other than that they're similar.

Just curious about Haller, I suspect I'd agree with where you put him. I think of him as a slightly worse contemporary of Bill Freehan, I just have more personal recongnition of him since he was both a Giant and a Dodger.

Interesting take on Schalk.

Their period is already well-represented, but I think that Lollar and Crandall deserve a look. Roseboro too, though that may be my partiality.