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Rusty Staub vs Carlos Delgado

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  • Rusty Staub vs Carlos Delgado

    I'm going to run a series of polls with the winner advancing each time to face another opponent. Will leave each poll up for a week. I'll try to provide as much statistical information as possible. Hopefully we can get some lively insightful debates going and bring to light some overlooked players from yesteryear.
    If you could pick between these two players to start your franchise with which would you pick? Please consider all relavent information. Their careers as a whole, peak performance, hitting, fielding, baserunning, positional value, league quality, etc.

    Rusty Staub

    2951 games
    11229 plate appearances
    9720 at-bats
    1189 runs
    2716 hits
    499 doubles
    47 triples
    292 home runs
    1466 RBI
    47 stolen bases
    33 caught stealing
    1255 walks
    888 strikeouts
    .279 AVG
    .362 OBP
    .431 SLG
    .793 OPS
    124 OPS+
    4185 total bases
    1533 runs created
    5.5 RC/G
    92 AIR
    .620 OW%
    .754 Total Average
    .282 Secondary Average
    355.0 Win Shares
    158.2 WSAB
    41.6 rWAR
    56.7 fWAR
    41.9 sWAR

    Carlos Delgado

    2035 games
    8657 plate appearances
    7283 at-bats
    1241 runs
    2038 hits
    483 doubles
    18 triples
    473 home runs
    1512 RBI
    14 stolen bases
    8 caught stealing
    1109 walks
    1745 strikeouts
    .280 AVG
    .383 OBP
    .546 SLG
    .929 OPS
    138 OPS+
    3976 total bases
    1588 runs created
    7.7 RC/G
    110 AIR
    .678 OW%
    .974 Total Average
    .419 Secondary Average
    303.8 Win Shares
    161.2 WSAB
    40.5 rWAR
    46.3 fWAR
    47.7 sWAR

    Previous results

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    Juan Gonzalez vs Wally Pipp
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    Juan Gonzalez vs Bobby Bonilla
    Juan Gonzalez vs Mickey Vernon
    Mickey Vernon vs Jose Canseco
    Mickey Vernon vs Carlos Delgado
    Carlos Delgado vs B.J. Surhoff
    Carlos Delgado vs Ken Griffey Sr
    Carlos Delgado vs Wally Joyner
    Carlos Delgado vs Cecil Cooper
    Carlos Delgado vs Jim Bottomley
    Carlos Delgado vs Harold Baines
    Carlos Delgado vs Chili Davis
    Carlos Delgado vs Steve Garvey
    Carlos Delgado vs Magglio Ordonez
    Carlos Delgado vs Paul O'Neil
    Carlos Delgado vs Dave Parker
    Carlos Delgado vs Moises Alou
    Carlos Delgado vs Jake Daubert
    Carlos Delgado vs George J Burns
    Carlos Delgado vs Felipe Alou
    Carlos Delgado vs Don Mattingly
    Carlos Delgado vs Hugh Duffy
    Carlos Delgado vs Al Oliver
    Carlos Delgado vs Dixie Walker
    Carlos Delgado vs Fred Tenney
    Carlos Delgado vs Chuck Klein
    Carlos Delgado vs Heinie Manush
    11
    Rusty Staub
    27.27%
    3
    Carlos Delgado
    72.73%
    8

    The poll is expired.

    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

  • #2
    I took Delgado, alot more power.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

    Comment


    • #3
      Probably would have been many comparisons between Carlos and Piazza had he remained a catcher.
      "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
        Probably would have been many comparisons between Carlos and Piazza had he remained a catcher.
        I wonder if Delgado had stayed at catcher would his hitting been anywhere near what he hit as a first baseman?
        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
          I wonder if Delgado had stayed at catcher would his hitting been anywhere near what he hit as a first baseman?
          Hard to say, though I'd think not. I think the Jays were very smart moving him out so as to get the best out of him. Lessen the wear'n'tear and keep him available for 160 games a year. Not to mention he played his prime years on turf which of course can take it's toll.
          "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
            Hard to say, though I'd think not. I think the Jays were very smart moving him out so as to get the best out of him. Lessen the wear'n'tear and keep him available for 160 games a year. Not to mention he played his prime years on turf which of course can take it's toll.
            I was wondering if the Blue Jays moved Delgado from catcher because they thought he couldn't be a major league catcher? Back in the mid 1990's I used to read Baseball America religiously and Delgado was hyped quite a bit. He pounded the ball in the minors. In the minors he never played any other position other than catcher, not even one inning.
            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
              I was wondering if the Blue Jays moved Delgado from catcher because they thought he couldn't be a major league catcher? Back in the mid 1990's I used to read Baseball America religiously and Delgado was hyped quite a bit. He pounded the ball in the minors. In the minors he never played any other position other than catcher, not even one inning.
              I'd think they would have moved him earlier if they didn't think he could play the position. To have him develop for over 400 games is nuts if there was no intention for him being there. He did tear up his shoulder a bit and they moved him to LF which didn't work. Then he was moved to 1B and stayed there. The bat was there and they knew it. I simply think it was to get him maximum playing time and not risk injury.
              "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                I was wondering if the Blue Jays moved Delgado from catcher because they thought he couldn't be a major league catcher? Back in the mid 1990's I used to read Baseball America religiously and Delgado was hyped quite a bit. He pounded the ball in the minors. In the minors he never played any other position other than catcher, not even one inning.
                according to this link, it seemed circumstances as much as anything, an injury here a vacancy in LF there, plus perhaps that he was not Johnny Bench part 2. JockBio: Carlos Delgado Biography (chances are the link fails if my lack of skills holds true to form).
                Last edited by PVNICK; 11-12-2012, 11:28 AM. Reason: bold underlined italicized the failed link in case anyone wants to look

                Comment


                • #9
                  Delgado's last qualifying year of being on BB-America's top prospect list...

                  1994

                  1. Cliff Floyd, 1b, Expos
                  2. Chipper Jones, ss, Braves
                  3. Jeffrey Hammonds, of, Orioles
                  4. Alex Gonzalez, ss, Blue Jays
                  5. Carlos Delgado, c, Blue Jays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez, ss, Mariners
                  7. Manny Ramirez, of, Indians
                  8. James Baldwin, rhp, White Sox
                  9. Rondell White, of, Expos
                  10. Jose Silva, rhp, Blue Jays
                  11. Darren Dreifort, rhp, Dodgers
                  12. Steve Karsay, rhp, Athletics
                  13. Trot Nixon, of, Red Sox
                  14. Chan Ho Park, rhp, Dodgers
                  15. Ryan Klesko, 1b-of, Braves
                  16. Derek Jeter, ss, Yankees
                  17. Javy Lopez, c, Braves
                  18. Brien Taylor, lhp, Yankees
                  19. Jeff Granger, lhp, Royals
                  20. Charles Johnson, c, Marlins

                  It's interesting that he was ranked that much higher than Javy. IIRC, they were teammates on a Winter League team. Dang, I remember when Hammonds broke in with the Orioles. I really thought he was going to be the next great outfielder.
                  "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In 1993 Delgado was ranked well ahead of Lopez as well.

                    1. Chipper Jones, ss, Braves
                    2. Brien Taylor, lhp, Yankees
                    3. Cliff Floyd, of, Expos
                    4. Carlos Delgado, c, Blue Jays
                    5. Tim Salmon, of, Angels
                    6. Wil Cordero, ss, Expos
                    7. Todd Van Poppel, rhp, Athletics
                    8. Jason Bere, rhp, White Sox
                    9. Allen Watson, lhp, Cardinals
                    10. Tyrone Hill, lhp, Brewers
                    11. Kurt Miller, rhp, Rangers
                    12. Dmitri Young, 3b, Cardinals
                    13. Manny Ramirez, of, Indians
                    14. Ray McDavid, of, Padres
                    15. Rondell White, of, Expos
                    16. David McCarty, 1b-of, Twins
                    17. Tavo Alvarez, rhp, Expos
                    18. Brad Pennington, lhp, Orioles
                    19. Jeffrey Hammonds, of, Orioles
                    20. Javy Lopez, c, Braves

                    On a side note Brien Taylor was recently convicted of selling drugs and sent to prison.

                    http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...,5094673.story
                    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                      In 1993 Delgado was ranked well ahead of Lopez as well.

                      On a side note Brien Taylor was recently convicted of selling drugs and sent to prison.
                      Thanks. I didn't go thru the '93 stuff. That B. Taylor stuff is a riot. What a bust of a "can't miss" draft pick.

                      BTW, here's the liink to what PVNICK was mentioning: Jock Bio - Delgado.

                      I forgot about the Jays signing old man Parrish. Their catchers combined for an OPS under .600 IIRC that year.
                      "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        IIRC, in the early 90s we had Delgado as a catcher, Sheffield as a shortstop and Jason Giambi/Jim Thome as third basemen. Yikes. That's alot of mashing balls from their original positions - fielding be damned!
                        "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
                          IIRC, in the early 90s we had Delgado as a catcher, Sheffield as a shortstop and Jason Giambi/Jim Thome as third basemen. Yikes. That's alot of mashing balls from their original positions - fielding be damned!
                          I always wondered why Jim Thome didn't stay at third base? The Indians did acquire Matt Williams before the 1997 which moved Thome over to first base. But was Thome a good enough defensive third baseman to have stayed there if Williams wasn't acquired?
                          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                            I always wondered why Jim Thome didn't stay at third base? The Indians did acquire Matt Williams before the 1997 which moved Thome over to first base. But was Thome a good enough defensive third baseman to have stayed there if Williams wasn't acquired?
                            Jim Thome was allergic to leather!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I chose Staub. For most of his career he was superior defensively. Unfortunately, we tend to remember him pinch hitting forever and throwing underhand. The power disparity is largely due to playing conditions--110 AIR for Delgado, 92 for Staub. If it comes down to a .678 OWP for 8657 PA vs .620 for 11229 PA, and you throw in the defense, I think it's Staub by a sliver.
                              Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                              Comment

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