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Baseball Fever Policy

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This announcement describes the policies pertaining to the operation of Baseball Fever.

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This document was based on a similar policy used by SABR.

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Is Stan Musial a LF or a RF?

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  • Is Stan Musial a LF or a RF?

    I'm working on my latest player ratings, and noticed that at BB-Ref they have him listed as a right fielder. Can someone help me on this? Here in BBR we've always listed him as a LF, competing for the top spot alongside Ted Williams and Barry Bonds.
    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
    George Brett

  • #2
    I think it's a misrepresentation to slot players like this into ONLY 1 position.

    But to answer your question, he's neither. He's a 1B, of course.

    Comment


    • #3
      But seriously, he should be at least mentioned in both LF and 1B categories.

      Comment


      • #4
        He's originally listed as an OF and 1B. But here we list him as an LF. And of course, he played mostly in 1B, although he in total more in both OF positions. My head hurts, and still, i have him as a RF and Pete Rose as a LF. Thinking on switching this, of course.
        "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
        George Brett

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dgarza View Post
          But to answer your question, he's neither. He's a 1B, of course.
          This is incorrect. While it's true that Musial played more games at 1B than any other SINGLE position, he played many more games as an outfielder. He played nearly 1900 games in the outfield, and just over 1000 at first base. He played more often in LF (929 games) than RF (781), and also patrolled CF 331 times.

          Of Musial's 22 ML seasons- counting his late 1941 callup- He played mostly or exclusively in the outfield 14 seasons. He was mostly/exclusvely a first baseman only in 5 seasons: 1946-1947-1957-1958-1959. He had three or perhaps four seasons where he played both outfield and first base fairly evenly, no more than 2/3 of the games in one or the other.

          Musial, like Rose, was one of the few truly multi- position stars. But, he played much more- in games and seasons- in the outfield- and he played more OF games in LF than anywhere else. If forced to categorize him, I'd call him a leftfielder.
          Last edited by BigRon; 11-21-2012, 05:16 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I never noticed this before. During Stan's three MVP seasons, the majority of his games started were in three different positions (RF in '43, 1B in '46 & CF in '48). That's pretty impressive.
            "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

            Comment


            • #7
              Wasn't Musial voted the greatest living first baseman in the same poll that had Joe diMaggio voted as greatest living player? (1969).
              Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
              Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
              Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
              Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
              Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

              Comment


              • #8
                A historical what-if :

                In 1943-44, Musial played mostly RF.
                In 1945, Musial was in the military.
                In 1946-47, Musial played mostly 1B.

                Why the switch? There does not seem to be any Cardinal RF or 1B in 1945 who would be taking Musial's position away in either, because no one else was really Musial's equal. Did they think Augie Bergamo might be the Cardinals' future RF, so put Musial at 1B?
                Where would Musial have played in 1945?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe Musial really was a RFer???

                  Musial's best seasons - WAR
                  Code:
                                             
                  Year           WAR       Pos
                  1948          10.8       RF/CF
                  1943           9.3       RF
                  1949           8.9       RF/CF
                  1944           8.8       RF
                  1951           8.7       LF/1B
                  1946           8.4       1B
                  1952           7.8       CF
                  1953           7.5       LF
                  1950           6.9       1B/LF
                  1954           6.8       RF

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BigRon View Post
                    This is incorrect. While it's true that Musial played more games at 1B than any other SINGLE position, he played many more games as an outfielder. He played nearly 1900 games in the outfield, and just over 1000 at first base. He played more often in LF (929 games) than RF (781), and also patrolled CF 331 times.

                    Of Musial's 22 ML seasons- counting his late 1941 callup- He played mostly or exclusively in the outfield 14 seasons. He was mostly/exclusvely a first baseman only in 5 seasons: 1946-1945-1957-1957-1959. He had three or perhaps four seasons where he played both outfield and first base fairly evenly, no more than 2/3 of the games in one or the other.

                    Musial, like Rose, was one of the few truly multi- position stars. But, he played much more- in games and seasons- in the outfield- and he played more OF games in LF than anywhere else. If forced to categorize him, I'd call him a leftfielder.
                    Done and Done. Put Rose as a RF, and Musial as a LF.
                    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                    George Brett

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      --Enos Slaughter missed 1943-45 to WWII. He was back and played every game in RF in 1946.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Musial's best seasons - OPS+
                        Code:
                                            
                        Year   OPS+       Pos
                        1948    200       RF/CF
                        1946    183       1B
                        1951    183       LF/1B
                        1943    177       RF
                        1949    177       RF/CF
                        1944    174       RF
                        1957    172       1B
                        1953    169       LF
                        1952    167       CF
                        1954    167       RF

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                          --Enos Slaughter missed 1943-45 to WWII. He was back and played every game in RF in 1946.
                          Thanks! That makes sense.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            --I'd rank Musial in whichever of LF/RF/1B he is going to rank higher for you. I like to put him at 1B, but thats probably just to be contrary and not have Gehrig #1 there like everybody else.
                            --Where to put him would be a nice "problem" to have if you atually had him on your team. I suppose it would depend on who else you had as options elsewhere to put the best team on the field. Few superstars are willing to be so flexible for the good of the team and I see that as substantial extra credit for Stan the Man in my overall rankings.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Bill James ranks him as a LFer.

                              Comment

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