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Where do you think Buster Posey's 2012 season ranks among catchers historically?

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  • Where do you think Buster Posey's 2012 season ranks among catchers historically?

    One of the best? Surely it's among the upper half at least, especially if you look strictly at offense.

  • #2
    Campanella had 2 seasons with more oWar. Bench had 2. Mauer had 1. Piazza 3. Not sure if I missed any. This is using prorated oWAR based on games as C versus total games. But, yea, it's a pretty short list. Top 20 in the last 60 years for certain and maybe top 10.
    "It's better to look good, than be good."

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    • #3
      If it's based only on offense I would say he's in the top three with Piazza 1997,1995 and Bench 1972,1970.
      "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

      "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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      • #4
        24 103 .336 , 957 is really good, but hot historically great, even for a catcher. Piazza averaged 35 107 .322 .969 for a 10 year span, and this was including missed strike games and being in the worst hitters parks in the league. And he didn't play as many games at first as Posey did.

        I rank it about the same as Posada in 2007...a truly underrated season.
        Last edited by willshad; 11-23-2012, 10:17 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by willshad View Post
          24 103 .336 , 957 is really good, but hot historically great, even for a catcher. Piazza averaged 35 107 .322 .969 for a 10 year span, and this was including missed strike games and being in the worst hitters parks in the league. And he didn't play as many games at first as Posey did.

          I rank it about the same as Posada in 2007...a truly underrated season.
          His 172 OPS+ is pretty damn impressive though, and 19 points higher than Posada 2007 (Granted, Posada did play more games as a catcher though).

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          • #6
            certainly one of the best. he is hurt a little though by playing a lot of 1B.
            I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by fenrir View Post
              His 172 OPS+ is pretty damn impressive though, and 19 points higher than Posada 2007 (Granted, Posada did play more games as a catcher though).
              Posada had a .970 OPS in 2007, higher than Posey in 2012.

              Sometimes OPS+ is kind of wacky.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by fenrir View Post
                His 172 OPS+ is pretty damn impressive though, and 19 points higher than Posada 2007 (Granted, Posada did play more games as a catcher though).
                Posada had a .970 OPS in 2007, higher than Posey in 2012.

                Sometimes OPS+ is kind of wacky.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by fenrir View Post
                  His 172 OPS+ is pretty damn impressive though, and 19 points higher than Posada 2007 (Granted, Posada did play more games as a catcher though).
                  Posada had a .970 OPS in 2007, higher than Posey in 2012.

                  Sometimes OPS+ is kind of wacky.

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                  • #10
                    I would rank Joe Mauer's 2009 above Posey's 2012. Gabby Hartnett's 1930 may have been a little better too, despite playing in a more offensive era.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by willshad View Post
                      Posada had a .970 OPS in 2007, higher than Posey in 2012.

                      Sometimes OPS+ is kind of wacky.
                      Well YS is a great place to hit in contrast to SF and the league OPS was quite a bit higher (2012 NL .718 and 2007 AL .761). Of course it depends on how much adjustment you give for hitting environment some people just believe low offense eras are a product of a lack of hitting talent and not factors inhibiting hitting.
                      I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dominik View Post
                        Well YS is a great place to hit in contrast to SF and the league OPS was quite a bit higher (2012 NL .718 and 2007 AL .761). Of course it depends on how much adjustment you give for hitting environment some people just believe low offense eras are a product of a lack of hitting talent and not factors inhibiting hitting.
                        What would steroids be considered?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by willshad View Post
                          What would steroids be considered?
                          depends on whether you believe posada was on steroids. OPS+ does of course punish clean players in the steroid era. but if they are not clean they probably still benefit because not anyone was on.

                          However I'm not sure if steroids are the only factor. I think the high strike (well not high but at least belly button high) is called a little more often (probably due to the electronic zone reviews on TV which might be watched by umps too). but I cannot prove that, just a feeling.
                          I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dominik View Post
                            depends on whether you believe posada was on steroids. OPS+ does of course punish clean players in the steroid era. but if they are not clean they probably still benefit because not anyone was on.

                            However I'm not sure if steroids are the only factor. I think the high strike (well not high but at least belly button high) is called a little more often (probably due to the electronic zone reviews on TV which might be watched by umps too). but I cannot prove that, just a feeling.
                            If Posada is a question mark (just because he was better) then so is Posey and more so. I'm going with the belief that neither was doing steroids.
                            Last edited by drstrangelove; 11-26-2012, 12:01 AM.
                            "It's better to look good, than be good."

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                            • #15
                              Posada also had the benefit of hitting in a MUCH better lineup.

                              Yankees team OPS in 2007 was .829

                              Giants team OPS in 2012 was .724


                              Someone brought up Jorge's ballpark but that was non-factor. Posada was actually significantly better on the road.
                              Last edited by GiambiJuice; 11-26-2012, 07:31 AM.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

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