Greg Maddux vs. Gaylord Perry

[Cowtipper]

Here are two historically great pitchers. Gaylord Perry spent 22 years in the big leagues, winning 314 games and striking out over 3,500 batters. Maddux, on the other hand, was a major leaguer for 23 years, and he had 355 wins and over 3,300 Ks. Perry bests Maddux in ERA, whiffs, complete games, shutouts and innings pitched, while Maddux paces Perry in wins, winning percentage, walks allowed and ERA+.

Two of the best pitchers ever...but which one was better?

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I don't think theres any question Maddux crushes Perry. Obviously the only reason Perry beats him in anything is due to his era.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I don't think anyone has even argued Perry is a top 10 all-time pitcher, let alone 20. Maddux is top 5 in the majority of discussions I've seen, with many of those who don't suggest as much pretty much just writing off the sport after the second world war.

[Joltin' Joe]

I don't think theres any question Maddux crushes Perry. Obviously the only reason Perry beats him in anything is due to his era.

Umm...and something else too....

[GiambiJuice]

This is like Babe Ruth vs. Manny Ramirez.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Umm...and something else too....

I'm guessing you mean the spitball. I never really held that against Perry to much because even though he admitted he doctored balls I still believe most if not all pitchers have done the same thing. I don't really think Perry started using a spitball as a common pitch until later in his career when most aging pitchers look for any type of edge. I think his biggest mistake was admitting to it.

[leecemark]

--Perry was commonly known as a spitballer by the time I started watching baseball in the late 60s. How much he actually threw it and how much it is another question. He actually seemed to encourage poeple thinking he threw it as a way to get in hitter's heads. He didn't get caught very often even though people were always on the lookout for it.
--The comparison with Maddux does him no favors though. Perry was a great pitcher, comfortably in the upper half of Hall of Fame pitchers, but Maddux is in the discussion for best pitcher ever.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

--Perry was commonly known as a spitballer by the time I started watching baseball in the late 60s. How much he actually threw it and how much it is another question. He actually seemed to encourage poeple thinking he threw it as a way to get in hitter's heads. He didn't get caught very often even though people were always on the lookout for it.
--The comparison with Maddux does him no favors though. Perry was a great pitcher, comfortably in the upper half of Hall of Fame pitchers, but Maddux is in the discussion for best pitcher ever.

Thats interesting I always thought he started getting his reputation as a spitballer in the mid to late 70's.

[EdTarbusz]

Perry had a reputation as a spitballer when he was with the Indians in the early 70s. Around 1974 he wrote an autobiography called Me and the Spitter.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Perry had a reputation as a spitballer when he was with the Indians in the early 70s. Around 1974 he wrote an autobiography called Me and the Spitter.

I always thought he came out with that book in the early 80's. I thought of him as a big strikeout pitcher in the 60's and early 70's but looking at his career stats now his k/9 innings have always stayed about the same.

[EdTarbusz]

I always thought he came out with that book in the early 80's. I thought of him as a big strikeout pitcher in the 60's and early 70's but looking at his career stats now his k/9 innings have always stayed about the same.

He was still with the Indians when it came out. There's probably still a copy of it at my mothers house. It was a big seller in Cleveland.

[fenrir]

Perry was an excellent pitcher, but I wouldn't consider him one of the best pitchers ever.

Statistically, Maddux is about top 5, and may be the best pitcher ever if you consider league quality adjustments.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

--Perry was commonly known as a spitballer by the time I started watching baseball in the late 60s. How much he actually threw it and how much it is another question. He actually seemed to encourage poeple thinking he threw it as a way to get in hitter's heads. He didn't get caught very often even though people were always on the lookout for it.
--The comparison with Maddux does him no favors though. Perry was a great pitcher, comfortably in the upper half of Hall of Fame pitchers, but Maddux is in the discussion for best pitcher ever.

First, Perry was one heck of a pitcher, but Maddux one of the best ever.
With that said, if he threw even one he broke a rule and we have to believe he did throw more than one..........but how many, how often. I don't think he did throw that many, if he did he was one of the best, most deceptive.

I believe him when he said the fact that batters so often thought one was coming was his biggest advantage.
Seems to me if he threw nearly as much as some believe, he would have been caught more often, even a few times.
First and third base coaches watching him, the bench, the umps, TV cameras with replays.............and he gets caught one time, in his 21st year in baseball, 1982.

[NYYankeesFan92]

This is like Babe Ruth vs. Manny Ramirez.

This is like Mickey Mantle vs. Andre Dawson.

[Edgartohof]

I like Perry and he is a surefire HOFer. Great pitcher who played for a long time(22 years), lots of wins (314), lots of SO's (3534), lots of Innings (5350).

But Maddux is on the short list for greatest ever. He too played for a long time (23 years), lots of wins (355), quite a few SO (3371) and innings (5008 1/3).

So they played for the same amount of time with each leading in Innings multiple times and the difference in IP is from the different eras. And while Maddux was not a SO pitcher, he has only 163 fewer SO in 341 2/3 fewer innings. Maddux's higher SO/9IP can be attributed to his era as well though. But Maddux had 41 more wins over his career, 4 Cy Young awards (vs. 2 for Perry).

And the biggest difference is Maddux's peak. His best years are equal to the other best of the best. From 1992-1998, Maddux was King He won 4 Cy Young awards (and a 2nd, 4th and 5th place), lead in wins 3 times, ERA 4 times, ERA+ 5 times (190 ERA+ over those 6 years), 0.968 WHIP with a low of 0.811 and high of 1.049, lead in CG and SHO 3 times each.

Maddux's longevity and consistency matches and surpasses that of Perry and his peak seasons surpass anything Perry ever did.