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  • Frank Thomas General Thread

    With all the Frank Thomas talk in the Barry Bonds thread I thought I'd start a new big Hurt thread since there is no general thread for him. I plan to do lots of research on the Big Hurt. Frank Thomas is one of my favorite players of all time. I was born in 1968 so I have a special fondness for ballplayers born that year which, of course, includes Thomas. A quick bio focusing on Thomas' early years.

    The fifth of six children born to Frank and Charlie Mae Thomas, Frank Edward Thomas Jr. was admittedly spoiled by his doting parents and older siblings. Growing up in Columbus, Georgia, he was called "Big Baby" and was encouraged to develop his gift for athletics. His parents never pushed him into sports, but they knew that if he was not at home he was playing ball somewhere nearby. As he grew he made little secret of his ambitions to play professional ball—even though his working-class family could hardly imagine such a life. "When I was a kid, probably around 12, I already knew I wanted to be a player," Thomas told the Chicago Tribune. "So I was just telling [my parents] what I wanted, and I followed my dream, and I worked hard enough to get it. A lot of people nowadays won't dedicate themselves like that.... I was a little different."

    Thomas was just nine years old when he convinced his father and the local coaches that he could play football in the Pop Warner league, which catered to 12-year-olds. Sure enough, he easily made one of the teams and won the job of starting tight end. He was equally successful in Little League baseball, where he began seeing the frequent intentional walks that put him on base to this day. His success in sports was put into perspective by a family tragedy. In 1977 his two-year-old sister Pamela died of leukemia. Recalling those days many years later, Thomas told the Chicago Tribune:"It was sad. It affected me. But it's something you don't look back on. The way I've dealt with it is to totally forget about it. As the years went by, it got easier and easier." Thomas has not really forgotten his baby sister, however. For years he has worked closely with The Leukemia Foundation, helping to raise money for research into a cure for the disease.

    Thomas's skills won him a scholarship to The Brookstone School, a private college preparatory institution in his hometown. He stayed only three years, opting to return to the local public school and its more competitive sports teams. There he lost little time in making his mark. As a Columbus High School sophomore he hit cleanup for a baseball team that won a state championship. As a senior he hit .440 for the baseball team, was named an All-State tight end with the football team, and played forward with the basketball team. He wanted desperately to win a contract to play professional baseball, but he was completely overlooked in the 1986 amateur draft. Baseball teams signed some 891 players on that occasion, and Thomas was not among them.

    "I was shocked and sad," Thomas recalled in the Chicago Tribune. "I saw a lot of guys I played against get drafted, and I knew they couldn't do what I could do. But I've had people all my life saying you can't do this, you can't do that. It scars you. No matter how well I've done. People have misunderstood me for some reason. I was always one of the most competitive kids around."

    In the autumn of 1986, Thomas accepted a scholarship to play football at Auburn University. Even so, his love of baseball drew him to the Auburn baseball team, where the coach immediately recognized his potential. "We loved him," Auburn baseball coach Hal Baird told Sports Illustrated. "He was fun to be around—always smiling, always bright-eyed." He was also a deadly hitter, posting a .359 batting average and leading the Tigers in runs batted in as a freshman. During the summer of 1987 he played for the U.S. Pan American Team, earning a spot on the final roster that would compete in the Pan American Games. The Games coincided with the beginning of football practice back at Auburn, so he left the Pan Am team and returned to college—only to be injured twice in early season football games.

    Thomas might have lost his scholarship that year because he could no longer play football. Instead the school continued his funding, and baseball became his sole sport. He was good enough as a sophomore to win consideration for the U.S. National Team—preparing for the 1988 Summer Olympics—but he was cut from the final squad. Stung and misunderstood again, he fought back. By the end of his junior baseball season he had hit 19 home runs, 19 doubles, and had batted .403 with a slugging percentage of .801. With another amateur draft looming, the scouts began to comprehend that the big Georgia native could indeed play baseball.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    I tried creating a thread on Thomas years ago, but gained very little support.

    Hopefully this thread does better.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by fenrir View Post
      I tried creating a thread on Thomas years ago, but gained very little support.

      Hopefully this thread does better.
      I hope it does! I'm trying to locate some pictures of Thomas wearing an Auburn baseball uniform. So far all i've really found is this tiny picture.

      Frank Thomas Auburn 1.jpeg
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

      Comment


      • #4
        Chicago players don't seem to get alot of support here. Then again theres not any Babe Ruth types out of Chicago either. Frank Thomas could very well be the best Chicago player of alltime.
        "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

        "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
          Chicago players don't seem to get alot of support here. Then again theres not any Babe Ruth types out of Chicago either. Frank Thomas could very well be the best Chicago player of alltime.
          Who else would be in the running? Guys like like Joe Jackson and Carlton Fisk were great players but they didn't spend as much time with the White Sox as Thomas did.
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
            Who else would be in the running? Guys like like Joe Jackson and Carlton Fisk were great players but they didn't spend as much time with the White Sox as Thomas did.
            He's deff the best Whitesox player but I would probably rank him higher than Ernie Banks and Cap Anson too
            "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

            "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

            Comment


            • #7
              SWEET!!

              Was wondering when someone would FINALLY pay him tribute

              FrankThomas.jpg

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                Who else would be in the running? Guys like like Joe Jackson and Carlton Fisk were great players but they didn't spend as much time with the White Sox as Thomas did.
                No Cubbies, only ChiSox?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Most would agree that Frank Thomas is among the handful of greatest right handed hitters in history, along with Foxx, DiMaggio, Pujols and Hornsby. Interesting to think how his numbers might be different, had he not played in Comiskey, which was spacious (especially down the lines) compared to some other parks. Despite his inside-out swing swing and extreme front foot hitting approach, which was tailored by hitting coach Walt Hreniak, he would he been more terrifying somewhere like Fenway. We could say what-if about many players though, the cards fall how they do.

                  Speaking of him being a righty. We know there is a distinct platoon disadvantage being a right-handed hitter, as most pitchers are righty. Anyone know the percentage? Wonder if any stat people have looked into some sort of formula, to even out the numbers, sorta like an adjustment to level the field. Just a non-stat guy being curious.

                  Some might say there are other players more "deserving" of a thread Honus, and Thomas certainly isn't an overly interesting or outspoken personality...but historically speaking, 50 years from now, I think his career will still be relevant to baseball fans. And being that he played "in our" era, we have information available that isn't for past eras. So that's a plus.

                  If this is going to become "your baby" I would suggest an index in the first post. At least break it up into pages...General Discussion, Hitting, Articles, Pictures, etc. Need to think of future generations as well.

                  I will post some things to help get things rollin' :balloon:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    SABR Matt come back !!!

                    Check out the seasons PCA has Thomas winning the MVP.

                    And below, Matt's total GI method has Thomas as the 3rd greatest first baseman and 21st greatest player of all-time. Note: At that time, Matt was tweaking his system to tone down the value of SB as he admitted it was a bit overvalued.

                    Originally posted by SABR Matt View Post
                    Normalized PCA MVP award winners for every season from 1876-2005:
                    Code:
                    Yr	Lg	First	Last    	Wins
                    1876	NL	Ross	Barnes  	10.06
                    1877	NL	Deacon	White   	7.12
                    1878	NL	Orator	Shaffer 	7.71
                    1879	NL	Paul	Hines   	9.91
                    1880	NL	George	Gore    	10.26
                    1881	NL	Cap	Anson   	11.38
                    1882	AA	Pete	Browning	9.57
                    1882	NL	Dan	Brouthers	9.66
                    1883	AA	Harry	Stovey  	10.97
                    1883	NL	Dan	Brouthers	11.91
                    1884	AA	Dave	Orr     	11.84
                    1884	NL	Paul	Hines    	12.43
                    1884	UA	Fred	Dunlap   	14.25
                    1885	AA	Pete	Browning	11.83
                    1885	NL	Roger	Connor  	11.70
                    1886	AA	Dave	Orr     	14.58
                    1886	NL	Roger	Connor  	14.73
                    1887	AA	Pete	Browning	16.61
                    1887	NL	Jim	Fogarty 	15.58
                    1888	AA	Harry	Stovey  	15.04
                    1888	NL	Roger	Connor  	14.25
                    1889	AA	Harry	Stovey  	14.61
                    1889	NL	Mike	Tiernan 	13.26
                    1890	AA	Cupid	Childs   	14.16
                    1890	NL	Hub	Collins 	13.30
                    1890	PL	Hugh	Duffy   	13.93
                    1891	AA	Dummy	Hoy     	12.65
                    1891	NL	Billy	Hamilton	19.31
                    1892	NL	Cupid	Childs  	14.54
                    1893	NL	Ed	Delahanty	16.09
                    1894	NL	Hugh	Duffy   	19.78
                    1895	NL	Jesse	Burkett 	15.99
                    1896	NL	Ed	Delahanty	17.26
                    1897	NL	Willie	Keeler   	15.80
                    1898	NL	Hughie	Jennings	14.08
                    1899	NL	Ed	Delahanty	18.30
                    1900	NL	Honus	Wagner  	17.21
                    1901	AL	Nap	Lajoie  	21.51
                    1901	NL	Jesse	Burkett  	15.40
                    1902	AL	Ed	Delahanty	14.24
                    1902	NL	Honus	Wagner  	14.87
                    1903	AL	Nap	Lajoie  	13.75
                    1903	NL	Honus	Wagner  	15.94
                    1904	AL	Nap	Lajoie  	20.58
                    1904	NL	Honus	Wagner  	19.20
                    1905	AL	George	Davis   	13.95
                    1905	NL	Honus	Wagner  	18.28
                    1906	AL	George	Stone   	18.13
                    1906	NL	Honus	Wagner   	17.16
                    1907	AL	Ty	Cobb    	20.94
                    1907	NL	Honus	Wagner  	18.97
                    1908	AL	Matty	McIntyre	15.04
                    1908	NL	Honus	Wagner   	23.85
                    1909	AL	Ty	Cobb    	21.50
                    1909	NL	Honus	Wagner   	18.06
                    1910	AL	Ty	Cobb    	22.33
                    1910	NL	Sherry	Magee   	18.85
                    1911	AL	Ty	Cobb    	22.70
                    1911	NL	Jimmy	Sheckard	14.59
                    1912	AL	Tris	Speaker 	23.01
                    1912	NL	Honus	Wagner  	15.51
                    1913	AL	Eddie	Collins 	18.63
                    1913	NL	Max	Carey   	11.74
                    1914	AL	Eddie	Collins 	19.02
                    1914	FL	Benny	Kauff   	18.78
                    1914	NL	George	Burns   	15.04
                    1915	AL	Ty	Cobb    	18.91
                    1915	FL	Benny	Kauff   	18.39
                    1915	NL	Gavvy	Cravath 	14.67
                    1916	AL	Tris	Speaker 	18.45
                    1916	NL	Zack	Wheat   	12.67
                    1917	AL	Ty	Cobb    	23.63
                    1917	NL	George	Burns   	14.45
                    1918	AL	Ty	Cobb    	12.80
                    1918	NL	George	Burns   	11.30
                    1919	AL	Babe	Ruth    	17.55
                    1919	NL	George	Burns   	13.73
                    1920	AL	Babe	Ruth    	23.86
                    1920	NL	Rogers	Hornsby 	16.34
                    1921	AL	Babe	Ruth    	25.73
                    1921	NL	Rogers	Hornsby 	19.90
                    1922	AL	Ken	Williams	14.64
                    1922	NL	Rogers	Hornsby 	20.58
                    1923	AL	Babe	Ruth    	24.31
                    1923	NL	Max	Carey   	13.14
                    1924	AL	Babe	Ruth    	23.06
                    1924	NL	Rogers	Hornsby 	21.10
                    1925	AL	Al	Simmons 	15.73
                    1925	NL	Rogers	Hornsby  	18.81
                    1926	AL	Babe	Ruth    	20.97
                    1926	NL	Paul	Waner   	13.58
                    1927	AL	Babe	Ruth    	19.20
                    1927	NL	Rogers	Hornsby  	17.69
                    1928	AL	Babe	Ruth    	19.11
                    1928	NL	Paul	Waner   	16.59
                    1929	AL	Babe	Ruth    	15.74
                    1929	NL	Rogers	Hornsby 	17.50
                    1930	AL	Babe	Ruth    	16.66
                    1930	NL	Bill	Terry   	16.13
                    1931	AL	Babe	Ruth    	17.80
                    1931	NL	Bill	Terry    	14.52
                    1932	AL	Jimmie	Foxx    	20.57
                    1932	NL	Mel	Ott     	17.81
                    1933	AL	Sam	West    	13.49
                    1933	NL	Wally	Berger  	11.50
                    1934	AL	Lou	Gehrig  	19.94
                    1934	NL	Arky	Vaughan 	14.75
                    1935	AL	Lou	Gehrig  	18.93
                    1935	NL	Arky	Vaughan 	14.96
                    1936	AL	Lou	Gehrig   	18.67
                    1936	NL	Paul	Waner   	14.75
                    1937	AL	Joe	DiMaggio	18.06
                    1937	NL	Joe	Medwick  	16.86
                    1938	AL	Hank	Greenberg	17.92
                    1938	NL	Arky	Vaughan 	14.32
                    1939	AL	Ted	Williams	14.79
                    1939	NL	Johnny	Mize    	14.96
                    1940	AL	Hank	Greenberg	13.91
                    1940	NL	Johnny	Mize    	14.04
                    1941	AL	Ted	Williams	18.73
                    1941	NL	Pete	Reiser  	15.55
                    1942	AL	Ted	Williams	19.48
                    1942	NL	Enos	Slaughter	15.35
                    1943	AL	Jo-Jo	White   	11.81
                    1943	NL	Stan	Musial  	17.79
                    1944	AL	Snuffy	Stirnweiss	15.76
                    1944	NL	Stan	Musial  	17.53
                    1945	AL	Snuffy	Stirnweiss	14.26
                    1945	NL	Tommy	Holmes  	16.88
                    1946	AL	Ted	Williams	21.12
                    1946	NL	Stan	Musial  	19.39
                    1947	AL	Ted	Williams	20.78
                    1947	NL	Ralph	Kiner   	17.10
                    1948	AL	Ted	Williams	20.07
                    1948	NL	Stan	Musial  	21.71
                    1949	AL	Ted	Williams	19.73
                    1949	NL	Stan	Musial  	17.78
                    1950	AL	Larry	Doby    	13.81
                    1950	NL	Stan	Musial  	14.93
                    1951	AL	Ted	Williams	15.33
                    1951	NL	Stan	Musial  	17.42
                    1952	AL	Larry	Doby    	13.59
                    1952	NL	Jackie	Robinson	15.34
                    1953	AL	Al	Rosen   	17.08
                    1953	NL	Eddie	Mathews 	17.46
                    1954	AL	Ted	Williams	15.20
                    1954	NL	Willie	Mays    	17.21
                    1955	AL	Mickey	Mantle  	17.49
                    1955	NL	Willie	Mays    	19.98
                    1956	AL	Mickey	Mantle  	23.10
                    1956	NL	Duke	Snider  	13.43
                    1957	AL	Mickey	Mantle   	20.44
                    1957	NL	Willie	Mays    	15.33
                    1958	AL	Mickey	Mantle  	17.58
                    1958	NL	Willie	Mays    	18.11
                    1959	AL	Mickey	Mantle  	13.46
                    1959	NL	Ernie	Banks   	15.44
                    1960	AL	Mickey	Mantle  	13.91
                    1960	NL	Willie	Mays    	16.89
                    1961	AL	Mickey	Mantle   	19.06
                    1961	NL	Willie	Mays    	15.36
                    1962	AL	Mickey	Mantle   	16.05
                    1962	NL	Frank	Robinson	19.56
                    1963	AL	Bob	Allison 	15.750
                    1963	NL	Hank	Aaron   	17.51
                    1964	AL	Mickey	Mantle  	14.73
                    1964	NL	Willie	Mays    	17.46
                    1965	AL	Tony	Oliva   	15.66
                    1965	NL	Willie	Mays    	19.55
                    1966	AL	Frank	Robinson	17.65
                    1966	NL	Dick	Allen   	16.68
                    1967	AL	Carl	Yastrzemski	19.71
                    1967	NL	Ron	Santo   	16.04
                    1968	AL	Carl	Yastrzemski	18.03
                    1968	NL	Willie	McCovey 	14.36
                    1969	AL	Reggie	Jackson 	17.06
                    1969	NL	Willie	McCovey 	16.86
                    1970	AL	Carl	Yastrzemski	17.31
                    1970	NL	Willie	McCovey 	13.19
                    1971	AL	Bobby	Murcer  	14.97
                    1971	NL	Willie	Stargell	16.70
                    1972	AL	Dick	Allen   	17.32
                    1972	NL	Joe	Morgan  	17.30
                    1973	AL	Reggie	Jackson 	16.39
                    1973	NL	Joe	Morgan  	19.17
                    1974	AL	Reggie	Jackson 	16.56
                    1974	NL	Joe	Morgan  	17.31
                    1975	AL	Fred	Lynn    	15.65
                    1975	NL	Joe	Morgan  	22.16
                    1976	AL	Rod	Carew   	14.86
                    1976	NL	Joe	Morgan  	17.19
                    1977	AL	Rod	Carew   	22.92
                    1977	NL	Dave	Parker  	14.74
                    1978	AL	Jim	Rice    	16.97
                    1978	NL	Dave	Parker  	14.81
                    1979	AL	Fred	Lynn    	17.50
                    1979	NL	Dave	Winfield	15.31
                    1980	AL	Rickey	Henderson	20.07
                    1980	NL	Mike	Schmidt 	16.59
                    1981	AL	Rickey	Henderson	12.67
                    1981	NL	Mike	Schmidt 	12.25
                    1982	AL	Robin	Yount   	18.01
                    1982	NL	Pedro	Guerrero	15.16
                    1983	AL	Rickey	Henderson	17.35
                    1983	NL	Dale	Murphy  	16.32
                    1984	AL	Eddie	Murray  	15.98
                    1984	NL	Tony	Gwynn   	14.82
                    1985	AL	Rickey	Henderson	24.42
                    1985	NL	Tim	Raines   	15.80
                    1986	AL	Wade	Boggs   	15.72
                    1986	NL	Tim	Raines   	14.26
                    1987	AL	Wade	Boggs   	16.86
                    1987	NL	Tim	Raines  	15.35
                    1988	AL	Jose	Canseco 	20.13
                    1988	NL	Kirk	Gibson   	15.30
                    1989	AL	Robin	Yount   	18.97
                    1989	NL	Will	Clark   	17.56
                    1990	AL	Rickey	Henderson	23.30
                    1990	NL	Barry	Bonds   	15.81
                    1991	AL	Frank	Thomas  	16.42
                    1991	NL	Barry	Bonds   	14.09
                    1992	AL	Frank	Thomas  	17.44
                    1992	NL	Barry	Bonds   	18.80
                    1993	AL	John	Olerud  	16.45
                    1993	NL	Barry	Bonds   	20.54
                    1994	AL	Frank	Thomas  	14.47
                    1994	NL	Jeff	Bagwell 	15.04
                    1995	AL	Tim	Salmon  	16.77
                    1995	NL	Barry	Bonds   	13.63
                    1996	AL	Chuck	Knoblauch	17.00
                    1996	NL	Barry	Bonds   	19.69
                    1997	AL	Frank	Thomas  	18.21
                    1997	NL	Larry	Walker  	16.83
                    1998	AL	Albert	Belle   	16.88
                    1998	NL	Mark	McGwire 	16.97
                    1999	AL	Derek	Jeter   	15.75
                    1999	NL	Chipper	Jones   	15.25
                    2000	AL	Jason	Giambi  	20.60
                    2000	NL	Todd	Helton  	19.39
                    2001	AL	Jason	Giambi  	21.59
                    2001	NL	Barry	Bonds   	19.63
                    2002	AL	Jim	Thome   	19.48
                    2002	NL	Barry	Bonds   	22.48
                    2003	AL	Carlos	Delgado 	16.11
                    2003	NL	Barry	Bonds   	18.16
                    2004	AL	Vlad	Guerrero	14.96
                    2004	NL	Barry	Bonds    	22.75
                    2005    AL      Alex    Rodriguez       14.44
                    2005    NL      Derrek  Lee             13.06
                    That's position players only.
                    Originally posted by SABR Matt View Post
                    By the GI Method, your top 25:
                    Code:
                    First	Last    	HOF	Rank	Ps-Rank	Career	Rate	Mastery	TOTAL	Ps
                    Babe	Ruth    	Y	1	1	323.43	316.42	318.53	958.39	RF
                    Ty	Cobb    	Y	2	1	312.85	277.72	247.87	838.44	CF
                    Barry	Bonds   	A	3	1	292.47	275.35	237.36	805.18	LF
                    Ted	Williams	Y	4	2	260.70	262.62	238.49	761.80	LF
                    Rickey	Henderson	A	5	3	285.40	255.58	214.37	755.35	LF
                    Honus	Wagner  	Y	6	1	273.56	249.95	221.21	744.73	SS
                    Tris	Speaker 	Y	7	2	279.44	254.37	180.00	713.81	CF
                    Stan	Musial  	Y	8	4	265.02	239.14	206.23	710.39	LF
                    Willie	Mays    	Y	9	3	277.64	247.58	160.07	685.29	CF
                    Mickey	Mantle  	Y	10	4	233.02	231.28	197.15	661.45	CF
                    Hank	Aaron   	Y	11	2	267.08	229.43	150.12	646.62	RF
                    Rogers	Hornsby 	Y	12	1	219.49	220.93	197.22	637.65	2B
                    Eddie	Collins 	Y	13	2	250.74	224.79	150.30	625.83	2B
                    Lou	Gehrig  	Y	14	1	208.34	209.37	166.70	584.41	1B
                    Frank	Robinson	Y	15	3	219.89	204.73	151.62	576.23	RF
                    Nap	Lajoie  	Y	16	3	211.82	200.22	158.45	570.49	2B
                    Joe	Morgan  	Y	17	4	215.36	198.62	148.59	562.57	2B
                    Mel	Ott     	Y	18	4	218.06	202.57	139.94	560.56	RF
                    Billy	Hamilton	Y	19	5	168.96	190.54	178.57	538.07	CF
                    Jimmie	Foxx    	Y	20	2	188.40	189.18	156.18	533.76	1B
                    Frank	Thomas  	A	21	3	169.70	189.71	164.01	523.42	1B
                    Walter	Johnson 	Y	22	1	189.23	172.07	148.47	509.77	SP
                    Carl	Yastrzemski	Y	23	5	205.31	171.46	128.41	505.18	LF
                    Al	Kaline   	Y	24	5	196.48	180.09	124.93	501.50	RF
                    Ed	Delahanty	Y	25	6	161.46	173.63	165.23	500.32	LF
                    Originally posted by SABR Matt
                    The top seven in career PCA-BA, if you're curious are:

                    Ruth (.385)
                    Williams (.381)
                    Bonds (.369)
                    Mantle (.360)
                    Cobb (.356)
                    Hornsby (.354)
                    F. Thomas (.352)
                    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 12-04-2012, 08:00 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Sports Illustrated Article, August 6, 1994

                      Aug6,1994cover.jpg

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                      • #12
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                        Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 12-04-2012, 08:10 PM.

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                        • #13
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