Top Non-PED User Sluggers of the 1990's.

[bluesky5]

There was a small "Inside Baseball" piece in this weeks SI

It focused on Fred McGriff. Mostly pointing out how he likely won't make the HoF because he simply is forgotten due to the inflated numbers put up by steroid users.

This is what is always forgotten in all this sites steroid debates: The players who stayed clean.

Who are some players [particularly sluggers] you think aren't, won't, don't get their just due from this decade?

[JR Hart]

There was a small "Inside Baseball" piece in this weeks SI

It focused on Fred McGriff. Mostly pointing out how he likely won't make the HoF because he simply is forgotten due to the inflated numbers put up by steroid users.

This is what is always forgotten in all this sites steroid debates: The players who stayed clean.

Sorry




Who are some players [particularly sluggers] you think aren't, won't, don't get their just due from this decade?

I don't buy the "he did" and "he didn't " scanario. PEDs were so rampant that we really don't know. But you all can speculate, I guess.

[bluesky5]

I don't buy the "he did" and "he didn't " scanario. PEDs were so rampant that we really don't know. But you all can speculate, I guess.

That is the scenario. That is real life. Certainly we won't know everyone who did.

Good honest men sit back and watch while men of lesser merits reap all the rewards. I think it would be nice if we focused on the honest ball players for once, rather than the others.

Someone like Scott Rolen for instance would probably be more revered for hitting as many HR's as he did while playing an amazing defensive third base if there hadn't been so many users.

Same with McGriff. He said in the late 90's people were asking him what was wrong with him. Nothing was wrong. He was just being overshadowed by steroid users. The lack of recognition may keep him out of the HoF.

[Los Bravos]

Fred is exhibit A but there are others. Rolen is a good mention. To some extent, Frank Thomas is another. He's going to make the Hall but he was still overshadowed for most of the last half of his career.

[NJYankeeFan]

I don't buy the "he did" and "he didn't " scanario. PEDs were so rampant that we really don't know. But you all can speculate, I guess.

Could not agree more. You can not prove a negative so we can never know if McGriff and others did not use. We may find out some did. Or we may not.

Forget it and move on.

Threads like this are simply to idolize good but not great players that some posters want to hype up more.

[dgarza]

I don't buy the "he did" and "he didn't " scanario. PEDs were so rampant that we really don't know. But you all can speculate, I guess.

The only non-PED players we can be sure of were those on whatever video game platform was popular at the time. And even then I have my doubts.

[bluesky5]

Could not agree more. You can not prove a negative so we can never know if McGriff and others did not use. We may find out some did. Or we may not.

Forget it and move on.

Threads like this are simply to idolize good but not great players that some posters want to hype up more.

I don't have an agenda to hype up any individual players. I'm not creating elaborate comparison threads to pump up Dave Kingman and alike. I spend no time in the HoF forum making ridiculous claims about marginal players.

This thread isn't to make accusations or debate guilt. I'm talking about guys who were never accused or implicated with steroid use. Steroid use sets the backdrop for the discussion but the focus is to shed some light on players who were undervalued for the time.

I know nothing of you NJYankeeFan and I tend to agree with JR Hart on a lot of things and appreciate his bluntness. I'd like to respectfully ask you both to not bash my thread simply because you disagree with the premise.

Maybe you could PM me and tell me a little more about myself.

[Ben Grimm]

Not sure if these guys were ever accused of anything, and they're definitely not prototypical sluggers. But they're my favorite type of player (20/20 - 30/30) because of their combination of power & speed.

Ray Lankford
Raul Mondesi
Shawn Green
Reggie Sanders

I'm sure there are a few more but can't recall off the top of my head. One other could be Bobby Abreu, but seeing him first hand every year, he really got big all of a sudden back in '05 or '06.

[bluesky5]

Robin Ventura is another guy. Gold Glove third baseman. Perennially hitting 20-30 HR's a year when healthy.

Eric Karros and Mark Grace come to mind as well.

[bluesky5]

Not sure if these guys were ever accused of anything, and they're definitely not prototypical sluggers. But they're my favorite type of player (20/20 - 30/30) because of their combination of power & speed.

Ray Lankford
Raul Mondesi
Shawn Green
Reggie Sanders

I'm sure there are a few more but can't recall off the top of my head. One other could be Bobby Abreu, but seeing him first hand every year, he really got big all of a sudden back in '05 or '06.

He sure did. He seemed to have a fairly normal decline tho.

Ray Lankford kind of was to those 90's Cardinal teams what Bobby Murcer was to the late 60's - early 70's Yankees. Wrong time with a great franchise.

[PVNICK]

I thought Karros was on the Mitchell report?

I always think Bernie Williams got the double shaft. First he played in a park with "old" dimensions. Second his numbers were compared to those of guys who could somehow hit broken bat home runs to the opposite field and played in parks with new parks with hitter friendly dimensions.

[NJYankeeFan]

I thought Karros was on the Mitchell report?

I always think Bernie Williams got the double shaft. First he played in a park with "old" dimensions. Second his numbers were compared to those of guys who could somehow hit broken bat home runs to the opposite field and played in parks with new parks with hitter friendly dimensions.

Bernie got the shaft because he really never should have been a switch hitter. He had some good yeas from the let side in his prime but it was never his natural swing and he lost it towards the end of his career.

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[NJYankeeFan]

I don't have an agenda to hype up any individual players. I'm not creating elaborate comparison threads to pump up Dave Kingman and alike. I spend no time in the HoF forum making ridiculous claims about marginal players.

This thread isn't to make accusations or debate guilt. I'm talking about guys who were never accused or implicated with steroid use. Steroid use sets the backdrop for the discussion but the focus is to shed some light on players who were undervalued for the time.

I know nothing of you NJYankeeFan and I tend to agree with JR Hart on a lot of things and appreciate his bluntness. I'd like to respectfully ask you both to not bash my thread simply because you disagree with the premise.

Maybe you could PM me and tell me a little more about myself.

Not trying to bash your thread. Just saying this is how these things often go. Sure there are players I suspect and players that I suspect did not.

But when this always comes up it hypes a couple of guys that sometimes makes you sit back and laugh.

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[bluesky5]

I thought Karros was on the Mitchell report?

I always think Bernie Williams got the double shaft. First he played in a park with "old" dimensions. Second his numbers were compared to those of guys who could somehow hit broken bat home runs to the opposite field and played in parks with new parks with hitter friendly dimensions.

I checked the list on wiki [I know not a "great" source] and he wasn't there.

[bluesky5]

Not trying to bash your thread. Just saying this is how these things often go. Sure there are players I suspect and players that I suspect did not.

But when this always comes up it hypes a couple of guys that sometimes makes you sit back and laugh.

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Understood