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**Cowtipper** · 12-11-2012, 02:27 AM

I have to go with Veach. At first glance, it's Delgado by a longshot--but then you have to consider the era he played in. This was an era when guys like Jeromy Burnitz could reach the 300 home run mark--he was, as I said in a previous comparison, just another power hitter in a power hitter's time. Look at his black and grey ink, for example. He hit 473 home runs and had over 1,500 RBI, yet his inks are only eight and 124, respectively. Even Dave Kingman had higher black ink.

On the other hand, Veach, who wasn't a power hitter, still managed inks of 22 and 170, respectively. He could draw a walk, rarely struck out (unlike Delgado, who Ked 127 times a year on average from 1996 to 2008), hit for extra bases--both doubles and triples--well. He maintained a higher average and an OPS+ that really isn't that much lower than Delgado's, plus his WAR (keeping in mind all its flaws) is higher.

**PVNICK** · 12-11-2012, 04:18 AM

I made up my mind before I read the above post. I too went with Veach because he was a bit closer to the top of his league. I know Delgado played in a larger integrated league but I also know Veach had a baserunning and defensive edge.

**Sockeye** · 12-11-2012, 09:58 AM

I have to go with Delgado on this one. The difference in league quality between the two is just too much for Veach to overcome. Yes, Veach did steal more bases but I'm not sure about his baserunning ability. The caught stealing data is missing for 1913, 1917-19. From 1914-16 Veach stole 60 bases, while being caught 54 times. A success rate of only 52.6%. If we apply the same success rate to the years that are missing he stole 83 bases while being caught 78 times making his career stolen base numbers 195 steals, 166 caught stealing or a 54% success rate. In otherwords he wasn't exactly helping his team. Delgado while no speedster had a 63% success rate.

**TomBodet** · 12-15-2012, 04:36 AM

Veach was kinda Mr Manush, can't see either as Delgado's better.

**willshad** · 12-15-2012, 11:40 AM

Delgado, and it really isn't that close.

People seem to want to penalize the steroid slugger two ways..first downgrading their raw stats because 'everybody hit home runs', and then saying that they had no black ink. To me, you can penalize them for one, but not the other...if everyone hit well, then obviously it will be harder to get black ink. if you have a lot of league leaderships, then almost by definition it means there was less competition for top talent. Delgado was also competing against roiders, which will obviously cut down his relative rates.

Still, his relative rates surpass Veach's easily, in a longer career. If Veach had the better peak, it may make up for it, but Delgado's top seasons far surpass Veach's. His 2000 season was like prime Gehrig season, and he was probably the best hitter in the league that season, and in 2003 as well. Delgado had 8 seasons with over a 130 OPS+, 6 with over 140.. Veach had 5 and 3. Simply put, Delgado beats him in peak, had more really good seasons, and has more overall hitting value.

Veach probably was more valuable in the field, but since both men were not known for their fielding, I don't give him much credit for that.

If we are picking steroid era sluggers to compare Veach to, Moises Alou is probably a more apt comparison.

**TomBodet** · 12-16-2012, 09:05 AM

Delgado is underrated and doesn't get a fair shake seems to me. I'd vote him for the Hall, not a problem. Ditto Fred McGriff.

Bobby Veach	44.44%	4 votes
Carlos Delgado	55.56%	5 votes

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Bobby Veach vs Carlos Delgado

Bobby Veach vs Carlos Delgado

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