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Mike Piazza vs Josh Gibson

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  • #46
    I don't doubt for a sec Josh = Foxx maybe if he'd been given the chance. You just donno. Piazza hit more off field homers, very strong, great bat. Bench Fwiw is my all time catcher.

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    • #47
      I'll throw this out there. Let's assume for a moment that Gibson was as good as the legends say he was. What separates Gibson from Buzz Arlett? Shouldn't Arlett be viewed as one of the game's greatest hitters as well? Arlett was called the "Babe Ruth of the minor leagues" because he pitched and hit. After Arlett played his one major league season at age 32 in 1931 with the Philadelphia Phillies this is what Lefty O'Doul said about Arlett.

      Looking back at the 1931 season, Lefty O'Doul, a contemporary of Arlett in the Pacific Coast League, offered a sobering commentary on Buzz's only season in the sun. He remarked to press that had Arlett been in the big leagues five years earlier, he would have been "the Babe Ruth of the National Circuit."

      In Arlett's minor leaguer career, mostly in the PCL, he hit .341 with a .604 slugging percentage with 432 HR and 1,786 RBI/1,610 runs in 2,392 games. In essence Arlett was a white "Negro Leaguer". He was barred from the majors because his minor league owner refused to sell Arlett's contract to a major league team.

      Here's Arlett with Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig.

      Arlett-Ruth-Gehrig 2.jpeg
      Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 12-13-2012, 11:14 AM.
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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      • #48
        I don't know much about Arlett but I gotta give him alot of credit for the way he hit in 1931. He looks pretty big compared to Ruth and Gehrig so had he played a full MLB career I would bet he would have hit very well.
        "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

        "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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        • #49
          Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
          I don't know much about Arlett but I gotta give him alot of credit for the way he hit in 1931. He looks pretty big compared to Ruth and Gehrig so had he played a full MLB career I would bet he would have hit very well.
          I'd never heard of Arlett until this past August. He quickly became one of my all-time favorite "obscure" old time ballplayers. I started a thread about him.

          http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...83-Buzz-Arlett
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
            I'd never heard of Arlett until this past August. He quickly became one of my all-time favorite "obscure" old time ballplayers. I started a thread about him.

            http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...83-Buzz-Arlett
            I can see how much managers thought of defense back then to keep a guy like him out of the majors. Showboat Fischer got the same kind of deal.
            "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

            "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

            Comment


            • #51
              I never heard of Arlett, HWR. That guy was monster in size as he dwarfs the 6'2" 220 lb Babe and the 6'1" 212 lb Gehrig. He's an interesting character.

              His one MLB season in the hitter-friendly Baker Bowl gets blown away by his Minor League stats. Part of me has a feeling that Gibson's stats would have dropped similarly. Let's look at the 4 Minor League seasons that surround his 1931 MLB season and see how they stack up:

              I'll look at ab/HR, avg, slug%

              1929 18.5, .374/.655
              1930 19.9, .361/.626
              1931 23.2, .313/.538
              1932 9.5, .339/.733
              1933 13.6, .343/.650

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                I'll throw this out there. Let's assume for a moment that Gibson was as good as the legends say he was. What separates Gibson from Buzz Arlett? Shouldn't Arlett be viewed as one of the game's greatest hitters as well? Arlett was called the "Babe Ruth of the minor leagues" because he pitched and hit. After Arlett played his one major league season at age 32 in 1931 with the Philadelphia Phillies this is what Lefty O'Doul said about Arlett.

                Looking back at the 1931 season, Lefty O'Doul, a contemporary of Arlett in the Pacific Coast League, offered a sobering commentary on Buzz's only season in the sun. He remarked to press that had Arlett been in the big leagues five years earlier, he would have been "the Babe Ruth of the National Circuit."

                In Arlett's minor leaguer career, mostly in the PCL, he hit .341 with a .604 slugging percentage with 432 HR and 1,786 RBI/1,610 runs in 2,392 games. In essence Arlett was a white "Negro Leaguer". He was barred from the majors because his minor league owner refused to sell Arlett's contract to a major league team.

                Here's Arlett with Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig.

                [ATTACH]117483[/ATTACH]
                You gotta be very big, to stand next to Lou and Babe and look bigger than both of them.

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                • #53
                  Wrong thread!
                  Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Bump for the newbies.
                    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                      You gotta be very big, to stand next to Lou and Babe and look bigger than both of them.
                      Maybe in MLB back in the 20s or 30s, not so much today. They would be pretty average compared to many of today's players.
                      "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
                        Maybe in MLB back in the 20s or 30s, not so much today. They would be pretty average compared to many of today's players.
                        Buzz was 6'3", 235-240 lbs. I don' think the average MLB player today is 6'3", 240 lbs is he? Buzz was about the same size and weight as Jim Thome.
                        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                          Buzz was 6'3", 235-240 lbs. I don' think the average MLB player today is 6'3", 240 lbs is he? Buzz was about the same size and weight as Jim Thome.
                          I was responding to his comment about standing next to the other two guys and making them look small. They would not look so big today. Buzz was a beast, and would still fill a doorway today. I didn't say anything about the guy who was standing next to the other two, and looking bigger than both of them.
                          "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                          • #58
                            My gut is that Josh Gibson was a similar hitter to Jimmie Foxx- tremendous power with a good average. I am pretty confident that Gibson was a top 5 Negro League hitter ever. But I have Piazza slightly ahead of Foxx. Piazza on the road batted .340 and slugged .605 over a 10 year run. He was a monster at the dish. I think Gibson would have been really close. But the tie goes to the guy with the actual stats. I do see a case for Gibson. He had to have been very good to get the reputation that he had.

                            My question to the doubters is this: how many Negro Leaguers as highly praised as Gibson flopped in MLB? I doubt that there are many.

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                            • #59
                              Bump.
                              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Apparently I voted for Piazza, but I am conflicted.
                                “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

                                "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

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