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Buzz Arlett vs Josh Gibson

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  • Buzz Arlett vs Josh Gibson

    This one should be interesting. I suspect it will be one-sided but what the heck? Who was the greater hitter, the "Babe Ruth of the Minor Leagues" or the "Black Babe Ruth"? For those who don't know much about Buzz Arlett here's a recent thread about him.

    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...83-Buzz-Arlett

    Here's a SABR bio on Arlett.

    http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/4419031b
    11
    Buzz Arlett
    18.18%
    2
    Josh Gibson
    81.82%
    9
    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 12-13-2012, 11:10 PM.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    Buzz Aldrin? What was his career OPS+?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
      Buzz Aldrin? What was his career OPS+?
      No! Russell "Buzz" Arlett! He had a 138 OPS+ in his only major league season.
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
        Buzz Aldrin? What was his career OPS+?
        Somewhere around the (Wally) Moon, I suspect.
        Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

        1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

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        • #5
          I picked Gibson but I think this is closer than most might think. I would say Arlett may have been a better pure hitter than Piazza too. (which I guess is why this thread was created).
          "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

          "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

          Comment


          • #6
            Here are Arlett's minor league stats. It's a bummer there are no walk totals. I'm sure he had huge walk totals. Given these stats isn't Arlett's minor league performance at least as impressive as Gibson's Negro League performance?

            Arlett minor lg stats.JPG
            Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 12-14-2012, 10:36 AM.
            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

            Comment


            • #7
              Was the only reason he was not in the majors because he could'nt play the field?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by willshad View Post
                Was the only reason he was not in the majors because he could'nt play the field?
                No, the main reason was because the Oakland Oaks owner refused to sell Arlett's contract and when he did say ok he asked for a huge buyout. The Tigers, Reds, Cardinals, and Dodgers all scouted him and showed interest in acquiring him in the early to mid 1920's.
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Gibson

                  He played a more [the most] important defensive position.

                  Now granted we don't know for sure Josh Gibson's stats but...

                  Arlett was playing 190 games [roughly] per season to hit 30-39 HR a year in a minor league. A very strong minor league but minor none the less.
                  "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                    Gibson

                    He played a more [the most] important defensive position.

                    Now granted we don't know for sure Josh Gibson's stats but...

                    Arlett was playing 190 games [roughly] per season to hit 30-39 HR a year in a minor league. A very strong minor league but minor none the less.
                    The poll is asking who is the better hitter only.
                    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                      The poll is asking who is the better hitter only.
                      My bad HWR. I'd still go with Gibson though.
                      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                        My bad HWR. I'd still go with Gibson though.
                        Ok, fair enough.

                        This comparison intrigues me because it comes down to one major question. Between the PCL of Arlett's era and the Negro Leagues of Gibson's era, which league(s) were stronger? Artlett played far more games in the PCL than Gibson played in established Negro leagues. How much should this factor into comparing the two as hitters? I think Gibson probably had a bit more raw home run power than Arlett IMO. Yet when Arlett played his one major league season in 1931 he hit for great power in the first half of the season. Because of injuries and lack of playing time Arlett hit 18 HRs that season which was still good to tie for 4th in the NL. His .538 slugging percentage was 5th in the NL. Of the top five home run hitters in 1931 Arlett had by far the fewest PA's. Arlett's minor league power translated to the majors quite well.

                        31 HR- Chuck Klein- 657 PA
                        29 HR- Mel Ott- 580 PA
                        19 HR- Wally Berger- 678 PA
                        18 HR- Buzz Arlett- 469 PA
                        18 HR- Babe Herman- 661 PA


                        Had Arlett been signed one year earlier and had a chance to play in the NL in 1930 he'd have much better numbers on a superficial level at least.
                        Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 12-15-2012, 12:02 AM.
                        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm switching my vote to Arlett but only if he actually pitched over 900 innings per year 4 different seasons in the minors.

                          1.14 career era
                          0.461 career whip
                          Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 12-15-2012, 12:08 AM.
                          "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                          "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
                            I'm switching my vote to Arlett but only if he actually pitched over 900 innings per year 4 different seasons in the minors.

                            1.14 career era
                            0.461 career whip
                            The poll is about hitting only CWS

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                              Given these stats isn't Arlett's minor league performance at least as impressive as Gibson's Negro League performance?
                              I'd say the two are about even on competition level but we have more reliable stats for Buzz Aldrin. Just think, if Buzz was able to go beyond the moon, how much more valuable he'd have been.

                              Comment

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