Why didn't Stan Musial put up crazy hitting stats during WW II?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

This got me thinking. During WW II the drop in talent level in the majors was significant. Why didn't Stan Musial putting up crazy hitting stats like hit .440-.450 or drive in like 190 runs or something? I look at his 1943-44 seasons and they look no different than his other prime seasons. In fact he had better hitting seasons after WW II. Did the balata ball have something to do with this?

Balata Baseball

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Sports Illustrated May 13, 1985.

Balata ball 1.JPG


Balata ball 2.JPG


Balata ball 3.JPG

[willshad]

He was only 22 and 23 years old at the time. Maybe it's possible that he was still developing, and those numbers could be compared to what he might have done in AA or AAA ball.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

He was only 22 and 23 years old at the time. Maybe it's possible that he was still developing, and those numbers could be compared to what he might have done in AA or AAA ball.

Good point willshad. Was it you that made the astute observation a while back that there is a natural upper limit to what even a superstar ballplayer can do in an established league in terms of stats?

[filihok]

The ball theory doesn't really hold weight as long as everyone was required to use the same ball.



1942 Musial's wRC+ was 155
1943 179
1944 174
1945 ---
1946 187
1947 135
1948 201

This is something in baseball history that I don't know much about. How many major leaguers were affected by the war? I can't imagine that it was that many players who didn't participate in major league ball.

[Nimrod]

As far as the power department,Musial was nicknamed Banjo(short for Banjo Hitter)when he first came up.He didn`t really get his home run stroke going until the 1948 season.He hit like he had two strikes on him at all times those early seasons and finally decided to hit like he had two strikes when he really had two strikes and start to go for the long ball more often.Tim McCarver,who played with Musial at the end of Musial`s career,said Musial had the strongest looking back muscles he ever saw.

[bluesky5]

AL players in WWII: http://www.baseballinwartime.com/tho..._served_al.htm

NL players in WWII: http://www.baseballinwartime.com/tho..._served_nl.htm

[The Commissioner]

I would also argue that's why we can't be so quick to dismiss the achievements of Marty Marion and others due to the "lack of talent" during that period. Yes, it's true most of the big names like DiMaggio, Williams, Greenberg, and Feller were not around to compete during the war years. However, this wasn't a complete "depletion" of talent as most would describe it. The guys left in the majors were still professional ballplayers and not just scrubs called into ML service from semi-pro and college teams. Hal Newhouser, Mort Cooper, Spud Chandler, Dizzy Trout, and Bucky Walters were all legitimate top notch pitchers, who unfortunately peaked during that era where many of their accomplishments can be easily dismissed or diminished through "weighted" stats. Marion and others face the same fate batting wise. That's why, while it's understandable to perhaps mentally adjust for the stars that were gone during that era. Yet, we can't then over compensate by completely dismissing the stats and accomplishments of those that did play.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I would also argue that's why we can't be so quick to dismiss the achievements of Marty Marion and others due to the "lack of talent" during that period. Yes, it's true most of the big names like DiMaggio, Williams, Greenberg, and Feller were not around to compete during the war years. However, this wasn't a complete "depletion" of talent as most would describe it. The guys left in the majors were still professional ballplayers and not just scrubs called into ML service from semi-pro and college teams. Hal Newhouser, Mort Cooper, Spud Chandler, Dizzy Trout, and Bucky Walters were all legitimate top notch pitchers, who unfortunately peaked during that era where many of their accomplishments can be easily dismissed or diminished through "weighted" stats. Marion and others face the same fate batting wise. That's why, while it's understandable to perhaps mentally adjust for the stars that were gone during that era. Yet, we can't then over compensate by completely dismissing the stats and accomplishments of those that did play.

Good point Commish. Weren't most of the "replacement players" mostly career minor leaguers (Pete Gray and Joe Nuxhall not withstanding)? Career minor leaguers would seem to be the next best class of player to replace major leaguers.

[64Cards]

As far as the power department,Musial was nicknamed Banjo(short for Banjo Hitter)when he first came up.He didn`t really get his home run stroke going until the 1948 season.He hit like he had two strikes on him at all times those early seasons and finally decided to hit like he had two strikes when he really had two strikes and start to go for the long ball more often.Tim McCarver,who played with Musial at the end of Musial`s career,said Musial had the strongest looking back muscles he ever saw.

I believe Bob Broeg, who covered the Cards for the Post and would be Stan's ghostwriter came up with the Banjo nickname, but it was done jokingly, using the word as an antonym. Kind of like calling a fat guy Tiny or a bald guy Curly. It's true Musial didn't really develop long ball power for a few years but he was already hitting for plenty doubles and triples by 1943. He started going for the HR after the 46 season because the incredibly cheap owner of the Cards, Sam Breadon told him if he wanted Williams or DiMaggio money he needed to hit the long ball.

[StanTheMan]

Why didn't he hit .440?


Really?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Why didn't he hit .440?


Really?

Yes really.

[willshad]

Yes really.

Because they weren't little leaguers!

[StanTheMan]

Because no player has sniffed that number in the 40 years prior to the year(s) in question nor the 70 years after? Despite weakened leagues due to discrimination, numerous tiny ballparks increasing avg's or huge ones suppressing HR swings and increasing the likelihood of hitters simply trying to make contact and presumably increase their avg.

Because the level of pitching even during the war did not allow any hitters to hit safely 44% of their AB's. Not even all time greats like Musial who, once they grew beyond 23 years of age, put up some numbers no other hitter could match.

Maybe he should have just been a little better?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Here's a simple thought experiment. Take Miguel Cabrera today or Albert Pujols from a few years ago or Frank Thomas in his prime and drop them into the PCL today and they hit well over .400 easily. The question is how much did the level of play drop during WW II? And no one has really addressed the balata ball either