Okay---Kenny Boyer.

[TomBodet]

He's not in the Hall. He's not likely to GO into the hall. But he's really comparable to Santo, Brooks, Bando, etc. What did he do wrong?? :choke:

[filihok]

According to FanGraphs' WAR:
PLAYER: Batting Runs, BaseRunning, Fielding, Positional, Replacement, Runs Above Replacement
Boyer: 224, -6, 73, 33, 276, 599

Santo: 338, -5, 22, 48, 313, 715
Bando: 228, 0, 36, 34, 276, 574
Robinson: 133, 0, 294, 66, 393, 886

He didn't hit as well as Santo.
He wasn't as good defensively as Robinson
He didn't play as much as either.

[TomBodet]

To me there's room for Boyer still--but as a Big Hall Guy(TM), I Would say that regardless. He's in between Brooks and Santo, that does sound about right. He is a classic short shrift case--put him in LA or NY and maybe he's in.

[TomBodet]

Yes, if you listen to McCarver, Everyone on that Cards team was the equivalent to Frank White--but I agree-Boyer's glove was terrific.

[filihok]

Boyer didn't play that long (only 12 seasons), and didn't have a very high peak; One 7.7 WAR season.

Santo had 4 seasons better than Boyer's best.
Robinson had 3 seasons better than Boyer's best and played 800 more games
Bando, I wouldn't have in the hall. His career is similar to Boyer's; one outstanding season and not an exceptionally long career.

[BigRon]

Boyer was an outstanding player. He was very physically talented- strong, coordinated, ran and threw well. He was a CFer at the beginning of his career. He was a terrific defensive third baseman- not at all far behind Brooks Robinson and his brother, Clete.

Boyer isn't in the HOF mainly because his counting numbers aren't quite high enough- he didn't reach 300 homers, 2000 hits, he didn't have a career BA of .300.

Boyer's career totals are a little short mainly because he got a late start to his ML career- he was in the service for 2 years during the Korean War. He was a Minor League batting terror, and almost certainly would have reached the big leagues at least 2 years earlier if not for the war.

He's a grey area guy for me due to his career totals, but he was an outstanding player- there are more than a few worse in the HOF.

[Jackaroo Dave]

Boyer was an outstanding player. He was very physically talented- strong, coordinated, ran and threw well. He was a CFer at the beginning of his career. He was a terrific defensive third baseman- not at all far behind Brooks Robinson and his brother, Clete. Boyer's . . . totals are a little short mainly because he got a late start to his ML career- he was in the service for 2 years during the Korean War.

He's a grey area guy for me due to his career totals, but he was an outstanding player- there are more than a few worse in the HOF.

I really liked Boyer. He's like Kaline or Doby, someone with no holes in his game. Well, I guess you wouldn't ask him to pinch run, but anything else. According to Wikipedia he actually started out in the Cardinals chain as a pitcher. The distribution of his talent across many variables was probably something else that didn't help his recognition.

While certainly ready by age 24, he lost a lot at the end, too. Back problems, wikipedia says. He had a decent year at 35, but he was basically through after 33. He was through with his LIFE at 51. I wonder what would have happened if, like DiMaggio, he quit when his level of play plummeted, a mini tragedy instead of a painful soap opera. His last few years' play actually decreased his career value.

[dgarza]

By the end of the '60s, when Boyer retired, for 3B, only Mathews hit more HRs.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Ken Boyer was a multi-talented player who was also a good teammate

However, the choice of Boyer as MVP in 1964 was one of the weakest choices ever

He was arguably the 4th best THIRD BASEMAN in the NL that year

driving in Curt Flood and Lou Brock fooled a lot of voters

but he could play for me anyday

[Jackaroo Dave]

According to FanGraphs' WAR:

PLAYER: Batting Runs, BaseRunning, Fielding, Positional, Replacement, Runs Above Replacement
Boyer: 224, -6, 73, 33, 276, 599
Santo: 338, -5, 22, 48, 313, 715
Bando: 228, 0, 36, 34, 276, 574
Robinson: 133, 0, 294, 66, 393, 886

He didn't hit as well as Santo.
He wasn't as good defensively as Robinson
He didn't play as much as either.

Or . . . "He hit better than Robinson, fielded better than Santo, and played as much as Bando."

[JR Hart]

Boyer was a great 3B. I would put him in my HOF. He was good enough for long enough.

[westsidegrounds]

He's not in the Hall. He's not likely to GO into the hall. But he's really comparable to Santo, Brooks, Bando, etc. What did he do wrong?? :choke:

Ken Boyer. Good solid journeyman ballplayer. Never heard anyone refer to him as "Kenny".

[GiambiJuice]

To me there's room for Boyer still--but as a Big Hall Guy(TM), I Would say that regardless. He's in between Brooks and Santo, that does sound about right. He is a classic short shrift case--put him in LA or NY and maybe he's in.

I don't think so. Nettles played in NY for 11 years and won 2 World Series with the Yankees and it didn't help him any. He was at least as good a player as Boyer was.

[Jackaroo Dave]

Ken Boyer. Good solid journeyman ballplayer. Never heard anyone refer to him as "Kenny".

"Journeyman?" Sheesh, if Boyer is a journeyman then Lindstrom and Kell are apprentices.

[dgarza]

With the possible exception of Kenny Lofton, guys named Ken do not want to be known as "Kenny". Trust me on this.

I know more Kenny's than Ken's. I think it's a fair split.