He's not in the Hall. He's not likely to GO into the hall. But he's really comparable to Santo, Brooks, Bando, etc. What did he do wrong?? :choke:
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Okay---Kenny Boyer.
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According to FanGraphs' WAR:
PLAYER: Batting Runs, BaseRunning, Fielding, Positional, Replacement, Runs Above Replacement
Boyer: 224, -6, 73, 33, 276, 599
Santo: 338, -5, 22, 48, 313, 715
Bando: 228, 0, 36, 34, 276, 574
Robinson: 133, 0, 294, 66, 393, 886
He didn't hit as well as Santo.
He wasn't as good defensively as Robinson
He didn't play as much as either.
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Boyer didn't play that long (only 12 seasons), and didn't have a very high peak; One 7.7 WAR season.
Santo had 4 seasons better than Boyer's best.
Robinson had 3 seasons better than Boyer's best and played 800 more games
Bando, I wouldn't have in the hall. His career is similar to Boyer's; one outstanding season and not an exceptionally long career.
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Boyer was an outstanding player. He was very physically talented- strong, coordinated, ran and threw well. He was a CFer at the beginning of his career. He was a terrific defensive third baseman- not at all far behind Brooks Robinson and his brother, Clete.
Boyer isn't in the HOF mainly because his counting numbers aren't quite high enough- he didn't reach 300 homers, 2000 hits, he didn't have a career BA of .300.
Boyer's career totals are a little short mainly because he got a late start to his ML career- he was in the service for 2 years during the Korean War. He was a Minor League batting terror, and almost certainly would have reached the big leagues at least 2 years earlier if not for the war.
He's a grey area guy for me due to his career totals, but he was an outstanding player- there are more than a few worse in the HOF.
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Originally posted by BigRon View PostBoyer was an outstanding player. He was very physically talented- strong, coordinated, ran and threw well. He was a CFer at the beginning of his career. He was a terrific defensive third baseman- not at all far behind Brooks Robinson and his brother, Clete. Boyer's . . . totals are a little short mainly because he got a late start to his ML career- he was in the service for 2 years during the Korean War.
He's a grey area guy for me due to his career totals, but he was an outstanding player- there are more than a few worse in the HOF.
While certainly ready by age 24, he lost a lot at the end, too. Back problems, wikipedia says. He had a decent year at 35, but he was basically through after 33. He was through with his LIFE at 51. I wonder what would have happened if, like DiMaggio, he quit when his level of play plummeted, a mini tragedy instead of a painful soap opera. His last few years' play actually decreased his career value.Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 12-30-2012, 04:25 PM.Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce
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Ken Boyer was a multi-talented player who was also a good teammate
However, the choice of Boyer as MVP in 1964 was one of the weakest choices ever
He was arguably the 4th best THIRD BASEMAN in the NL that year
driving in Curt Flood and Lou Brock fooled a lot of voters
but he could play for me anyday1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/
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Originally posted by filihok View PostAccording to FanGraphs' WAR:
PLAYER: Batting Runs, BaseRunning, Fielding, Positional, Replacement, Runs Above Replacement
Boyer: 224, -6, 73, 33, 276, 599
Santo: 338, -5, 22, 48, 313, 715
Bando: 228, 0, 36, 34, 276, 574
Robinson: 133, 0, 294, 66, 393, 886
He didn't hit as well as Santo.
He wasn't as good defensively as Robinson
He didn't play as much as either.Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 12-30-2012, 05:32 PM.Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce
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Originally posted by TomBodet View PostTo me there's room for Boyer still--but as a Big Hall Guy(TM), I Would say that regardless. He's in between Brooks and Santo, that does sound about right. He is a classic short shrift case--put him in LA or NY and maybe he's in.My top 10 players:
1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ty Cobb
4. Ted Williams
5. Willie Mays
6. Alex Rodriguez
7. Hank Aaron
8. Honus Wagner
9. Lou Gehrig
10. Mickey Mantle
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Originally posted by westsidegrounds View PostKen Boyer. Good solid journeyman ballplayer. Never heard anyone refer to him as "Kenny".Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce
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