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Carl Yastrzemski's odd career

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  • 9RoyHobbsRF
    replied
    Williams was as good or nbetter than Yaz no matter what he did with Fenway as a home park compared to both on the road

    saying yaz adapted better by going to left while WIlliams did not belies the numbers

    the only thing that matters for this thread is Yaz was helped immensely by playing in a bandbox, and it inflates his value

    Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
    Roy, Yaz got fat in Fenway by going the other way. Williams was well-known for not doing so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Two different worlds.
    Asking one player to take advantage of a hitters park
    Asking another player to adapt or make the most out of a park death on RH hitters.

    Not only that how difficult was it for Yaz to get the most out of his park. Look at some of the Bosox hitters home and away, some of the splits are unbelievable. How do we know he did anything that different at home, so many feasted there.

    Then look at some RH Yankee hitters at home, especially the long ball, most way, way lower at home.
    Joe, Bobby Richardson, Horace Clark, and Frankie Crosetti all had better home/away splits than the Clipper.
    Edit: For Roy's benefit, by "better" I meant their home production was higher relative to their road production than Joe's.
    Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 01-06-2013, 09:41 PM.

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  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    right

    and Ted WIlliams hit .361 at home and .328 on the road

    how is it that Yaz with almost identical splits adapted and Williams didn't

    it's pure jibberish
    Roy, Yaz got fat in Fenway by going the other way. Williams was well-known for not doing so.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Looks like Joe liked Fenway.
    Career .334/.410/.605.
    Career home runs 29, only Ruth, Mantle, Killebrew and Kaline hit more there, most by visitors.
    Not to mention missed 33 more games at Fenway, prime year in the service.
    Ted Williams, I think hit .309 in Yankee Stadium, good but not Williams like.
    Teds own words, did not like hitting at Yankee Stadium, the high stands, all the smoke rising.

    Leave a comment:


  • GiambiJuice
    replied
    Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
    Roy, are you unable to understand what I wrote, or are you deliberately misinterpreting it? It makes a difference to me.
    It's a usually a bit of both.

    Leave a comment:


  • 9RoyHobbsRF
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Two different worlds.
    Asking one player to take advantage of a hitters park
    Asking another player to adapt or make the most out of a park death on RH hitters.


    Not only that how difficult was it for Yaz to get the most out of his park. Look at some of the Bosox hitters home and away, some of the splits are unbelievable. How do we know he did anything that different at home, so many feasted there.

    Then look at some RH Yankee hitters at home, especially the long ball, most way, way lower at home.
    right

    and Ted WIlliams hit .361 at home and .328 on the road

    how is it that Yaz with almost identical splits adapted and Williams didn't

    it's pure jibberish
    Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 01-06-2013, 08:18 PM.

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by filihok View Post
    DiMaggio had a .938 OPS at Yankee Stadium
    DiMaggio had a 1.015 OPS otherwise.

    If, according to your hypothesis, a player's true talent is reflected by his away stats then DiMaggio certainly did not adapt to Yankee Stadium because he hit much worse there.
    Two different worlds.
    Asking one player to take advantage of a hitters park
    Asking another player to adapt or make the most out of a park death on RH hitters.

    Not only that how difficult was it for Yaz to get the most out of his park. Look at some of the Bosox hitters home and away, some of the splits are unbelievable. How do we know he did anything that different at home, so many feasted there.

    Then look at some RH Yankee hitters at home, especially the long ball, most way, way lower at home.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    DiMaggio never adapted to Yankee Stadium. These guys weren't dumb but they couldn't do what Yaz had to.
    this is just crazy
    Yaz did not adapt to anything other than play in a bandbox and any attempt to say otherwise is just baloney
    and for what it's worth
    DiMag hit .315 and slugged .546 in YS
    Yaz hit .306 and slugged .503 in Fenway
    and Yaz did not miss 3 prime years to a war
    I would say DiMag adapted pretty well
    and DiMag hit .334 and slugged .605 in Fenway
    Yaz hit .278 and slugged .434 in YS
    Roy, are you unable to understand what I wrote, or are you deliberately misinterpreting it? It makes a difference to me.
    Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 01-06-2013, 07:08 PM.

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  • filihok
    replied
    Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    DiMaggio never adapted to Yankee Stadium. These guys weren't dumb but they couldn't do what Yaz had to.


    this is just crazy

    Yaz did not adapt to anything other than play in a bandbox and any attempt to say otherwise is just baloney

    and for what it's worth

    DiMag hit .315 and slugged .546 in YS
    Yaz hit .306 and slugged .503 in Fenway

    and Yaz did not miss 3 prime years to a war

    I would say DiMag adapted pretty well
    DiMaggio had a .938 OPS at Yankee Stadium
    DiMaggio had a 1.015 OPS otherwise.

    If, according to your hypothesis, a player's true talent is reflected by his away stats then DiMaggio certainly did not adapt to Yankee Stadium because he hit much worse there.

    Leave a comment:


  • 9RoyHobbsRF
    replied
    DiMaggio never adapted to Yankee Stadium. These guys weren't dumb but they couldn't do what Yaz had to.


    this is just crazy

    Yaz did not adapt to anything other than play in a bandbox and any attempt to say otherwise is just baloney

    and for what it's worth

    DiMag hit .315 and slugged .546 in YS
    Yaz hit .306 and slugged .503 in Fenway

    and Yaz did not miss 3 prime years to a war

    I would say DiMag adapted pretty well

    and DiMag hit .334 and slugged .605 in Fenway
    Yaz hit .278 and slugged .434 in YS
    Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 01-06-2013, 06:45 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • filihok
    replied
    Originally posted by brett View Post
    that's not true man. A projection could attempt to model a hypothetical (past).
    Fair enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • brett
    replied
    Originally posted by filihok View Post
    A projection is an attempt to say what will happen in the future.

    We're not talking about the future...we're talking about the past.
    that's not true man. A projection could attempt to model a hypothetical (past).

    Leave a comment:


  • brett
    replied
    Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    could not disagree more

    having a tight field with narrow foul territory and getting more chances for hits from foul pop ups not being caught is not being smart or taking advantage or learning or being adaptive

    it is being lucky to have your career played in a offensive park

    not too mention a stupid high fence turning easy outs into hits

    as for this thread and being more impressed ... what little I thought of Yaz due to glaring park illusions is now even more diminished due to his disgruntled locker room antics disrupting teams111

    Those are all factors that help all players though, so they show up in all the relative stats. My data shows that Yaz' rates were about 12% better because of his park rates, but 7% of that advantage was had by all players who played for or against them and 5% was particular to him (and other guys like Boggs and Rice similarly).

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by filihok View Post
    I don't think it has much (some, but not 'much') to do with intelligence. Some guys are right-handed fly ball pull hitters. Those guys will benefit more from Fenway than other types of hitters.
    For example, left-handed line drive hitters. Unless they develop an inside out swing that lets them beat a tattoo off the green monster.

    Maybe "bodily intelligence" is a better word. It doesn't take a lot of smarts to figure out that going the other way is a good option, but doing it, that's another story. Big Papi couldn't do it for years. Williams never did. DiMaggio never adapted to Yankee Stadium. These guys weren't dumb but they couldn't do what Yaz had to.

    Why didn't Yaz learn to adapt to every road stadium, Roy? I suspect for the same reason no one else does. He played 81 games at home, what, 9 in each of the others, in about three rounds of three?

    Honestly, arguing with you is like arguing with the Bourbons, except sometimes you forget things.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by filihok View Post
    A projection is an attempt to say what will happen in the future.

    We're not talking about the future...we're talking about the past.
    OK, used the wrong word.
    But, also I wasn't, we're not talking about the past, because it never happened.
    I'm speaking of what Brett "expected" Carl's home rates might be based on his road rates and an average park factor and normal home road split data.
    So the home rate he came up with, what might be expected never happened, it's what he believes it may have been, what might be expected, compared to what they actually were.
    Due respect to Brett, he always does his homework, but I don't put much into what something might have been or should have been based on a formula.
    I go by what the player did at home and on the road, the difference.

    Leave a comment:

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