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  • A bit more on Fenway, a hitters park.

    Notice the other parks in that top 12 list.
    Coors in the only modern day park on the list, all the others are gone, except for Wrigley.
    Also some like Forbes and Crosley make the list but none held a good hitting park title for as many years as Fenway.
    There is no break since 1937 for Fenway, right up to 2003, it's on the list. 1937-1968------------1969-1984--------1985-2003.

    Notice we don't see any other older AL parks, NY, Detroit, Chicago, Philly, Saint Louis/Baltimore, Cleveland and Washington. The years we have been speaking of, Ted Williams, Fred Lynn and Yaz.

    How much more help do we need, this has been one of the best hitting parks for the last 70+ years.

    Now we could play with all the math as we have seen on the board or we could use common sense. If you play in a good hitting park, most times your going to have better home stats and that will pad your career numbers....................or is that too simple.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 01-14-2013, 03:15 PM.

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    • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
      If you play in a good hitting park, most times your going to have better home stats and that will pad your career numbers....................or is that too simple.
      Has anyone said anything otherwise?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
        A bit more on Fenway, a hitters park.

        Notice the other parks in that top 12 list.
        Coors in the only modern day park on the list, all the others are gone, except for Wrigley.
        Also some like Forbes and Crosley make the list but none held a good hitting park title for as many years as Fenway.
        There is no break since 1937 for Fenway, right up to 2003, it's on the list. 1937-1968------------1969-1984--------1985-2003.

        Notice we don't see any other older AL parks, NY, Detroit, Chicago, Philly, Saint Louis/Baltimore, Cleveland and Washington. The years we have been speaking of, Ted Williams, Fred Lynn and Yaz.

        How much more help do we need, this has been one of the best hitting parks for the last 70+ years.

        Now we could play with all the math as we have seen on the board or we could use common sense. If you play in a good hitting park, most times your going to have better home stats and that will pad your career numbers....................or is that too simple.
        This finally answers my question about the renovations to Fenway that diminished the hitter's advantage. The .276 average from 1969-1984 declines to .2707 from 1985-2003. The Sox have had a bushel of sluggers through the years who hit 40 or more doubles in a season.
        "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
        "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TonyK View Post
          This finally answers my question about the renovations to Fenway that diminished the hitter's advantage. The .276 average from 1969-1984 declines to .2707 from 1985-2003.
          Well, not really.

          The API is a better measure. A decline from 108 to 106 doesn't really mean much.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by filihok View Post
            Well, not really.

            The API is a better measure. A decline from 108 to 106 doesn't really mean much.
            I'm sure there are several other measures too, but the point is Fenway is no longer as hitter friendly as it once was.
            "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
            "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by filihok View Post
              Has anyone said anything otherwise?
              Yes some have downplayed what that home park meant to Yaz and some other Bosox hitters.It's a hitter's heaven.
              Go back and look.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                Yes some have downplayed what that home park meant to Yaz and some other Bosox hitters.It's a hitter's heaven.
                Go back and look.
                I'm not going to go back and look. If there's something you'd like me to see, show me.

                Of course playing in a hitters park helps hitters.

                That's why adjusted stats like OPS+ and wRC+ are the best indicators of a player's true offensive performance. And are certainly better indicators than total batting average, total home runs, total RBI, or just looking at road numbers

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                  Yes some have downplayed what that home park meant to Yaz and some other Bosox hitters.It's a hitter's heaven.
                  Go back and look.
                  I don't think there's any substantive disagreement about Fenway's properties as a hitters' ballpark. There is a good deal of difference in interpreting how this affects the evaluation of Yaz as a hitter. Providing further documentation of what is not in dispute will not settle that issue.
                  Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                    I don't think there's any substantive disagreement about Fenway's properties as a hitters' ballpark. There is a good deal of difference in interpreting how this affects the evaluation of Yaz as a hitter. Providing further documentation of what is not in dispute will not settle that issue.
                    I hear ya Jack, I did say that in some previous posts. That most of us are on the same page in one respect, it's a hitter's park that we only differ in only to what degree it did benefit Yaz and some other Bosox hitters.
                    I don't see any harm in posting more info on the park, where it stood in rank and for how long.
                    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 01-14-2013, 05:27 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by filihok View Post
                      I'm not going to go back and look. If there's something you'd like me to see, show me.
                      Of course playing in a hitters park helps hitters.

                      That's why adjusted stats like OPS+ and wRC+ are the best indicators of a player's true offensive performance. And are certainly better indicators than total batting average, total home runs, total RBI, or just looking at road numbers
                      Thats just the answer I expected and I think you know my answer.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                        I hear ya Jack, I did say that in some previous posts. That most of us are on the same page in one respect . . . .
                        I don't see any harm in posting more info on the park, where it stood in rank and for how long.
                        Oh, definitely; it's interesting stuff.
                        Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                          Thats just the answer I expected and I think you know my answer.
                          Anyone who thinks that playing in Fenway doesn't help a hitter's raw numbers is wrong (to the best of available knowledge).
                          Anyone who thinks that adjusted numbers such as wRC+ are not a better measure of a player's true production, are also wrong.

                          Anyone who wants to challenge measures like wRC+ are going to have to so with a lot of math.

                          Comment


                          • I remember about 76 or so following the sox on the 'wmex radio network', and there was some joker following yaz around with an accordian in the stands. Yaz would come up, and it was suddenly Lawrence Welk time, you know polka music? Donno how long it lasted but Woods and Ned Martin laughed about it.....never seen it mentioned anywheres, but it Did happen. I think. I was 10.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TomBodet View Post
                              I remember about 76 or so following the sox on the 'wmex radio network', and there was some joker following yaz around with an accordian in the stands. Yaz would come up, and it was suddenly Lawrence Welk time, you know polka music? Donno how long it lasted but Woods and Ned Martin laughed about it.....never seen it mentioned anywheres, but it Did happen. I think. I was 10.
                              I was a huge listener of WMEX 1510 AM during the 60's. My schoolbus driver always had it on for the kids. WMEX on air personalities were known as the Good Guys and the lineup included Mel Miller, Melvin X. Melvin, Dan Donovan, Ron Robin, Charlie Tuna, the Jones Boys, and the king of the air, Arnie "Woo Woo" Ginsburg who hosted the Night Train Show. They played all the rock n roll hits.

                              Arnie's big sponsor was Adventure Car Hop on Route 1 in Saugus, a popular hamburger joint. If you ordered a 'Ginsburger" you received a free single which usually was a top ten hit. If you said, 'Woo Woo Ginsburg" to the waitress when she brought your order out to your car, you got another Ginsburger free.

                              A sports talk show on WMEX "Cliff and Claff" had Cliff Keane and Larry Claflin hosting, and talked about the Red Sox all year round. Another favorite of mine was Larry Glick's show (also on WBZ later on) on around midnight. He would get fans from all over the East Coast calling him about any non-controversial and happy topics (they were called "Glickniks") and it was always light and funny. He was always replaying favorite bizarre conversations he had with people during the late night hours. My favorite story was from a caller from the South who talked to Larry Glick about the night his orangutan attacked him. It was a classic!
                              "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                              "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                              Comment


                              • Not a Bosox fan but I do recall watching Yaz on his way to the Triple Crown in 1967.
                                It was one of the best all around seasons I can recall seeing.
                                Seemed like he was always in the middle of a rally, getting the big hit.
                                Making the catch or throwing out a runner in key game situations.
                                He did it all in 1967.

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