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Carl Yastrzemski's odd career

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  • Floyd Gondolli
    replied
    Originally posted by westsidegrounds View Post
    Look at all those PA's Yaz got vs lefties ... 515 more than Thome, 1,437 more than Howard ... did the Red Sox just not have anybody who could (a) play left field and (b) hit lefthanders?
    Do you mean on the team, or people they could have traded for, drafted, or purchased?

    Originally posted by westsidegrounds View Post
    Ted may not have faced many lefthanders, but he did OK against those he did face, hmmm? .316/.438/.500
    He did very well. But 1) he would be platooned and specialized vastly more (probably 20% more) in later eras and 2) even in HIS time, he didn't face lefties as much as he should have.

    So it could be said, and accurately, that his numbers are inflated relative to many of the other greatest hitters ever.

    The second point I'm thinking is.....if he's the greatest hitter of all time- which everyone calls him today- shouldn't he have crushed lefties? Better than anyone? Should the greatest hitter ever have one of the worst relative scores against left handed pitching? Shouldn't he have no major deficits?

    I have little doubt Ruth hit much better against lefties than Ted, also. Especially relatively speaking.

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  • westsidegrounds
    replied
    Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
    Yaz could not hit left handed pitching. Today, that would be much more of a liability than it was in his career, or any era prior.

    Worst relative career OPS scores vs. left handed pitching.

    ...

    Notice Ted Williams at #9. And how few PA he had versus lefties vs. his career PA. More on that later.
    Look at all those PA's Yaz got vs lefties ... 515 more than Thome, 1,437 more than Howard ... did the Red Sox just not have anybody who could (a) play left field and (b) hit lefthanders?

    Ted may not have faced many lefthanders, but he did OK against those he did face, hmmm? .316/.438/.500

    Leave a comment:


  • Floyd Gondolli
    replied
    Yaz could not hit left handed pitching. Today, that would be much more of a liability than it was in his career, or any era prior.

    Worst relative career OPS scores vs. left handed pitching.

    Capture.PNG

    Notice Ted Williams at #9. And how few PA he had versus lefties vs. his career PA. More on that later.
    Last edited by Floyd Gondolli; 08-22-2016, 11:48 AM.

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Not a Bosox fan but I do recall watching Yaz on his way to the Triple Crown in 1967.
    It was one of the best all around seasons I can recall seeing.
    Seemed like he was always in the middle of a rally, getting the big hit.
    Making the catch or throwing out a runner in key game situations.
    He did it all in 1967.

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyK
    replied
    Originally posted by TomBodet View Post
    I remember about 76 or so following the sox on the 'wmex radio network', and there was some joker following yaz around with an accordian in the stands. Yaz would come up, and it was suddenly Lawrence Welk time, you know polka music? Donno how long it lasted but Woods and Ned Martin laughed about it.....never seen it mentioned anywheres, but it Did happen. I think. I was 10.
    I was a huge listener of WMEX 1510 AM during the 60's. My schoolbus driver always had it on for the kids. WMEX on air personalities were known as the Good Guys and the lineup included Mel Miller, Melvin X. Melvin, Dan Donovan, Ron Robin, Charlie Tuna, the Jones Boys, and the king of the air, Arnie "Woo Woo" Ginsburg who hosted the Night Train Show. They played all the rock n roll hits.

    Arnie's big sponsor was Adventure Car Hop on Route 1 in Saugus, a popular hamburger joint. If you ordered a 'Ginsburger" you received a free single which usually was a top ten hit. If you said, 'Woo Woo Ginsburg" to the waitress when she brought your order out to your car, you got another Ginsburger free.

    A sports talk show on WMEX "Cliff and Claff" had Cliff Keane and Larry Claflin hosting, and talked about the Red Sox all year round. Another favorite of mine was Larry Glick's show (also on WBZ later on) on around midnight. He would get fans from all over the East Coast calling him about any non-controversial and happy topics (they were called "Glickniks") and it was always light and funny. He was always replaying favorite bizarre conversations he had with people during the late night hours. My favorite story was from a caller from the South who talked to Larry Glick about the night his orangutan attacked him. It was a classic!

    Leave a comment:


  • TomBodet
    replied
    I remember about 76 or so following the sox on the 'wmex radio network', and there was some joker following yaz around with an accordian in the stands. Yaz would come up, and it was suddenly Lawrence Welk time, you know polka music? Donno how long it lasted but Woods and Ned Martin laughed about it.....never seen it mentioned anywheres, but it Did happen. I think. I was 10.

    Leave a comment:


  • filihok
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Thats just the answer I expected and I think you know my answer.
    Anyone who thinks that playing in Fenway doesn't help a hitter's raw numbers is wrong (to the best of available knowledge).
    Anyone who thinks that adjusted numbers such as wRC+ are not a better measure of a player's true production, are also wrong.

    Anyone who wants to challenge measures like wRC+ are going to have to so with a lot of math.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    I hear ya Jack, I did say that in some previous posts. That most of us are on the same page in one respect . . . .
    I don't see any harm in posting more info on the park, where it stood in rank and for how long.
    Oh, definitely; it's interesting stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by filihok View Post
    I'm not going to go back and look. If there's something you'd like me to see, show me.
    Of course playing in a hitters park helps hitters.

    That's why adjusted stats like OPS+ and wRC+ are the best indicators of a player's true offensive performance. And are certainly better indicators than total batting average, total home runs, total RBI, or just looking at road numbers
    Thats just the answer I expected and I think you know my answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
    I don't think there's any substantive disagreement about Fenway's properties as a hitters' ballpark. There is a good deal of difference in interpreting how this affects the evaluation of Yaz as a hitter. Providing further documentation of what is not in dispute will not settle that issue.
    I hear ya Jack, I did say that in some previous posts. That most of us are on the same page in one respect, it's a hitter's park that we only differ in only to what degree it did benefit Yaz and some other Bosox hitters.
    I don't see any harm in posting more info on the park, where it stood in rank and for how long.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 01-14-2013, 05:27 PM.

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  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Yes some have downplayed what that home park meant to Yaz and some other Bosox hitters.It's a hitter's heaven.
    Go back and look.
    I don't think there's any substantive disagreement about Fenway's properties as a hitters' ballpark. There is a good deal of difference in interpreting how this affects the evaluation of Yaz as a hitter. Providing further documentation of what is not in dispute will not settle that issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • filihok
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Yes some have downplayed what that home park meant to Yaz and some other Bosox hitters.It's a hitter's heaven.
    Go back and look.
    I'm not going to go back and look. If there's something you'd like me to see, show me.

    Of course playing in a hitters park helps hitters.

    That's why adjusted stats like OPS+ and wRC+ are the best indicators of a player's true offensive performance. And are certainly better indicators than total batting average, total home runs, total RBI, or just looking at road numbers

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by filihok View Post
    Has anyone said anything otherwise?
    Yes some have downplayed what that home park meant to Yaz and some other Bosox hitters.It's a hitter's heaven.
    Go back and look.

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyK
    replied
    Originally posted by filihok View Post
    Well, not really.

    The API is a better measure. A decline from 108 to 106 doesn't really mean much.
    I'm sure there are several other measures too, but the point is Fenway is no longer as hitter friendly as it once was.

    Leave a comment:


  • filihok
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyK View Post
    This finally answers my question about the renovations to Fenway that diminished the hitter's advantage. The .276 average from 1969-1984 declines to .2707 from 1985-2003.
    Well, not really.

    The API is a better measure. A decline from 108 to 106 doesn't really mean much.

    Leave a comment:

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