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Pinson, Oliver or Anderson?

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  • Pinson, Oliver or Anderson?

    Who was the best player of these three?

    Vada Pinson
    Al Oliver
    Garret Anderson
    15
    Vada Pinson
    86.67%
    13
    Al Oliver
    6.67%
    1
    Garret Anderson
    6.67%
    1

    The poll is expired.


  • #2
    I don't see much overall difference between Oliver and Pinson, but Anderson, although a good fielder, was barely league average as a hitter and was 33rd in WAR runs above average (-13) and 31st in OPS+ (102) among left fielders between 1990 and 2012. I had thought that he was undeservedly overlooked, but his nice triple crown numbers owe a lot to his era. Even his 4-year bump from 2000 to 2003 was not overwhelming, as the league also had a bump around then.
    Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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    • #3
      Swish, Whats up homie!? C-Town huh?

      I went with Pinson. No research.
      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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      • #4
        Pinson and Oliver make an interesting comparison. Anderson is several notches below them. Hall of Very Good for the first two, but Hall of Sorta Kinda Good for Anderson.

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        • #5
          Agreed with the masses here. Oliva and Pinson are neck-and-neck. Both top 200 position players and well ahead of Anderson.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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          • #6
            Pinson, just slightly

            Vada was a terrific all around player. AO was a masher. Both really underrated, at least in my opinion.
            3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

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            • #7
              I picked Pinson, but looking at the stats again, I would probably pick Oliver. He aged MUCH better than Pinson, and actually had his best season at age 35. From age 27-35, Pinson had just a 103 OPS+, while Oliver had a 131 OPS+ during the same age span. Oddly, Pnson has much more offensive WAR that Oliver, despite Oliver being the much better hitter.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by willshad View Post
                I picked Pinson, but looking at the stats again, I would probably pick Oliver. He aged MUCH better than Pinson, and actually had his best season at age 35. From age 27-35, Pinson had just a 103 OPS+, while Oliver had a 131 OPS+ during the same age span. Oddly, Pnson has much more offensive WAR that Oliver, despite Oliver being the much better hitter.
                That's because Offensive WAR counts everything but defensive runs: Pinson has a hundred point edge in position WAR (because Oliver wound up at first base) and replacement WAR, because Pinson played more: a 46-run edge in position, a 54-run edge in replacement value.

                As BBREF points out in both its popups, WAR is not the sum of oWAR and dWAR.
                Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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                • #9
                  Ummmm, Pinson. Always thought he was horribly overlooked. Oliver we all know. Anderson i think deserves respect too: he was pretty good if not Hof.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post

                    As BBREF points out in both its popups, WAR is not the sum of oWAR and dWAR.
                    Not this again. Doesn't matter how many times this is explained...
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I never saw Pinson play, but my father liked him. At baseball reference he was compared to Oliver and Anderson. Hence, the poll. Just trying to gain a better understanding of what type of players he is similar to.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                        Not this again. Doesn't matter how many times this is explained...
                        Sorry, Matthew, I can't help it. It's an occupational disease.
                        Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Muncus Agruncus View Post
                          I never saw Pinson play, but my father liked him. At baseball reference he was compared to Oliver and Anderson. Hence, the poll. Just trying to gain a better understanding of what type of players he is similar to.
                          The poll provides some insight into how BBREF selects "similar players." Differences in league offense do not matter. Except for position played, defensive capacity does not matter. batting average matters a lot. Relative scores like WAR and OPS+ don't matter. If you click on the tab, you'll get a breakdown of the player's and his similars' stats, including WAR and OPS. the disparities are often very interesting.

                          This was an important poll.
                          Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Pinson's one of those players I wish I was old enough to see. By the time I got into the game, he was ending his career and rarely did I get to see AL games other than the Yankees or Sox on Saturdays. I love power/speed players and he was one of the better ones during his era.
                            "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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                            • #15
                              Pinson was an outstanding player when young. If he had been able to keep up his early career pace for 4-5 years longer than he did, he'd probably be in the HOF. But, he declined fairly early, though he remained a pretty good player for a long time. He was very fast early in his career, and a pretty decent CFer.

                              Oliver was a fine hitter, a versatile guy on defense, though not exceptional. He aged very well. I saw them both play a lot, Oliver more than Pinson. At his best, Pinson was the better player, but Oliver played well a bit longer. I give him the slightest of edges.

                              Anderson was a good player but a notch below the other two.

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