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best year of Babe Ruths career poll

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  • #16
    Originally posted by blackout805
    ruth has the modern day record, pre-1900 stats get overlooked due to the way the rules have evolved over the years
    Ok...But nothing happened in 1900 to make the game "modern". If anything the game became modern in 1893 when the mound was set at 60'6". If you look at Baseball-Reference.com they list Hamilton as the runs record holder.

    Baseball-Reference link
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
      Ok...But nothing happened in 1900 to make the game "modern". If anything the game became modern in 1893 when the mound was set at 60'6". If you look at Baseball-Reference.com they list Hamilton as the runs record holder.

      Baseball-Reference link
      i dont want to get off-topic in here, so I made my response in your new thread

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
        Uhhhhmm...Last time I checked I thought Billy Hamilton has the runs scored record with 192 runs for the 1894 Phillies.
        It may not be fair, but (like many others) I choose to ignore "MLB records" that were set before 1900.

        And 1894 is my favorite year to ignore -- hitting .400 was no special achievement in that season.
        Luke

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        • #19
          1927 without a doubt

          OPS+ BLAH!

          He was the only one hitting HRs in 1920 and 1921, in 1923 I think 2 players in the AL and 3 in the NL started playing Ruth's game wherein 1927, he had alot more HR competition and blasted all of them away, truly his most magnificent season

          and the biggest rule in regards to offense took place around 1903, the foul strike rule...before then you could just strike at pitches and hit them foul w/o a strike being called until you got a pitch you liked...and thus began the deadball era...look at Lajoie's, Wagner's and Keeler's stats stats after the rule change (I forgot who adopted it 1st I think ut was the NL in 1902, Al in 1903)
          Last edited by Imapotato; 05-18-2005, 01:53 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Imapotato
            1927 without a doubt

            And the biggest rule in regards to offense took place around 1903, the foul strike rule...before then you could just strike at pitches and hit them foul w/o a strike being called until you got a pitch you liked...and thus began the deadball era...look at Lajoie's, Wagner's and Keeler's stats stats after the rule change (I forgot who adopted it 1st I think ut was the NL in 1902, Al in 1903)
            Your right on with that one. That foul strike was a big change.

            The NL made the change in 1901 and the league offense dropped.
            ---------Batting Ave.---------BB-----------ERA
            1900-------.279-------------3034----------3.69
            1901-------.267-------------2619-----------3.32


            The AL made the change in 1903
            ----------Batting Ave--------BB-----------ERA
            1902----------.275--------2815----------3.57
            1903----------.255--------2266---------2.95.

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            • #21
              1921 and what a year it was!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by csh19792001
                1923- look at his splits in 20' and 21'- the Polo Grounds MADE HIM those years.
                How different do you think his numbers would have been, had he started out in Yankee Stadium in '20? Just curious.

                Hard not to pick '20. There are the numbers. Then there's the 26 game hitting streak, and doing what nobody thought could ever be possible, in ways that were never imagined. All this through an injury plagued season.

                I gotta go with '21 though. Not that he was ever bothered by pressure, but for him to top '20 the very next year was amazing. 457 total bases, and setting the all time HR record that year is nice too.

                blackout, u should update his OBP and SA for '20. (.533 and .849)

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                • #23
                  I voted 1923 because Ruth also had arguably a gold glove year in RF. It likely was his best defensive year, and of course he won his first WS ring.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                    How different do you think his numbers would have been, had he started out in Yankee Stadium in '20? Just curious.
                    Probably quite different, if you look at his splits at The Polo Grounds.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by csh19792001
                      Probably quite different, if you look at his splits at The Polo Grounds.
                      Do you have those off hand? Do you mean just homeruns or everything.

                      We know what his splits were in '19.

                      We know the huge dimensions of other AL parks.

                      We know that the majority of his Polo Grounds homers left little doubt.

                      Speaking of the thread topic, one could make a case that '19 was his best year. Making emergency starts, and setting the HR record in huge parks before rule changes were implemented.

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                      • #26
                        1921 straight up. Just can't compare.

                        The other seasons may have individual numbers that were better (not by much though), but overall, this was clearly his best year.

                        His top three years, he had:

                        .370+ BA
                        .510+ OBP
                        1.300+ OPS

                        Of them, he had his greatest power in '21, where his 59 HR's beats out the other two seasons (54 in '20, and 41 in '23). But it's not just his HR's where he leads in power, he also had 44 doubles (one less than in '23), and a career high of 16 triples (3 more than in '23). In short, he beats out the other 2 seasons in XBH by 20 (119 to 99)!
                        Edge: 1921

                        His best OBP year of these three was in 1923, where he hit .393/.545. These were career numbers for both OBP and BA for him that year, and he was 2nd in BA that year. He also posted an OBP of .533in 1920, which also beats his OBP from '21, which was still an astounding .512.
                        Edge: 1923

                        Stolen Bases - actually has very little to do with this, but I just wanted to mention it. 1921 was Ruths best year on the bases of the three (although still horrible by todays standards). He stole 17 of 30, good for a 57% success rate (okay, so not so good). But it is still clearly better than the other two seasons (14/28 in '20, and 17/38 in '23).
                        Edge: none - all of them were crappy, so this was pointless

                        Runs/RBI - team dependant? who cares. 1921 was also Ruths biggest year, putting up career highs of 177 Runs, and 171 RBI. The 177 runs is a 20th century record, and the 171 RBI were a record then. These beat the other two seasons by at least 19 Runs, and 34 RBI!
                        Edge: 1921

                        Pitching: Ruth won 2 games in '21 (in spite of giving up 9 ER in 9 innings over those 2 games).
                        Edge: none - again. He had a 9.00 ERA - he probably homered in both of those games to win (hey, could somebody check that out for me?)

                        RC - runs created - '21 wins here as well. According to BB-ref, he had 233 RC in '21, 206 in '20, and 216 in '23.
                        Edge: 1921

                        There are probably other areas to consider, but these are the big ones (some more so than others). For me, it's clear that 1921 was the best, but not by much, and as it's been said before, I'd be able to live with any of them.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                          Do you have those off hand? Do you mean just homeruns or everything.
                          Ruth's splits
                          1920
                          Home: .397/.539/.985
                          Ruth slugged nearly 1.000 at home for an entire season.
                          He had 201 total bases in 204 at bats!!!

                          1921
                          Home: .404/.545/.929

                          The Grounds:
                          258 to right, 249 to left.

                          The left-field second-deck overhang meant that a homer to left was actually easier than a homer to right, even though the wall in left was 19 feet further away - the overhang was 21 feet, effectively shortening the distance required for a pop-fly homer to the second deck in left to 249 feet because of the angle involved.

                          In his two ostensibly greatest seasons, you gotta believe Ruth benefitted a ton from his park. Light years more so than after the move to The Stadium.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Edgartohof
                            He had a 9.00 ERA - he probably homered in both of those games to win (hey, could somebody check that out for me?)

                            He started a game on June 13 of 1921. Went 5 innings and got roughed up a bit, but still got the win. Yanks won that day over Detroit 13-8. Not sure what Ruth did at the plate. Knowing how he normally did against Detroit pitchers, chances are good he contributed. Maybe Joe can check the boxscore for info.

                            The other game in '21 came after the Yanks had clinched the pennant in the first game of a doubleheader. Babe gnagged Huggins into letting him pitch a few innings of the second game. He entered the game in the 8th inning with the Yanks ahead 6-0. He gave up six runs to tie the score. Huggins let Ruth stay in and he pitched shutout ball through the 9th, 10th, and 11th innings, before the Yanks scored in the bottom of the 11th. 7-6 win. Looking at retrosheet here, looks like that game was an Oct 1st home game against PHI and Hoyt started.

                            Originally posted by csh19792001
                            [U]The Grounds:
                            258 to right, 249 to left.
                            Yeah, in '21 Polo Grounds

                            Left - 286 (250 overhang)

                            Left Center, Left of Bullpen - 447

                            Left Center, Right of Bullpen - 455

                            Center - 480

                            Right Center - 450

                            Right - 256

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                              He started a game on June 13 of 1921. Went 5 innings and got roughed up a bit, but still got the win. Yanks won that day over Detroit 13-8. Not sure what Ruth did at the plate. Knowing how he normally did against Detroit pitchers, chances are good he contributed. Maybe Joe can check the boxscore for info.
                              .
                              Ruth pitched 5 innings, gave up 5 hits- 7 walks-4 earned runs. He left the mound after the 5th inning after he struck out Ty Cobb. The day before Cobb and Ruth had to be separated after nearly coming to blows.

                              At the plate Ruth was 2 for 3. Two home runs, one into the center field bleachers at the Polo Grounds. At that time CF was 433 feet away. The only time the CF bleachers was reached was yesterday, by Ruth in another two home run day. Todays was further than yesterdays, described as "several rows back around 460 to 470 feet. Ruth has homered 4 times in his last 5 official at bats and had 7 home runs in the last 5 days.

                              Glad to hear this. Before the series with the Tigers was over Cobb patted Ruth on the back near the games end, both smiled, happy ending.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3
                                At the plate Ruth was 2 for 3. Two home runs
                                Figures. Nice work Joe.

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