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Mickey Mantle vs Joe DiMaggio

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  • Originally posted by Dude Paskert View Post
    I might agree if Yankee wasn't his home park.
    Good point, although when he was a kid in Commerce, Ok he had no clue where he would end up playing. If he had only hit RH it certainly would have negatively affected his HR production.
    It Might Be? It Could Be?? It Is!

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    • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
      How far do you want to go with this.
      We both made points and I think that's all one can really do. Ultimately, each person has to decide how to weigh them.
      "It's better to look good, than be good."

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      • Credit goes to Layson for this work, not I:

        DiMaggio vs Mantle runs & RBI's

        AL numbers, with pitchers removed:

        573622 PA- DiMaggio league
        68450 RBI- league
        71.6 RBI's per 600 PA's- league
        120 RBI's per 600 PA's- DiMaggio (126 road)
        RBI's above avg.= 68%- DiMaggio (76% road)

        892311 PA- Mantle league
        94741 RBI- league
        63.7 RBI's per 600 PA's- league
        91 RBI's per 600- Mantle
        RBI's above avg.= 43%- Mantle (43% road)

        .128 R/PA- DiMaggio league
        76.8 runs per 600 PA's- league
        108.7 runs per 600 PA's- DiMaggio
        Runs above avg.= 41.5%- DiMaggio
        Road runs above avg.= 49.3%

        .113 R/PA- Mantle league
        67.8 runs per 600 PA's- Mantle league
        101.4 runs per 600 PA's- Mantle
        Runs above average= 49.6%- Mantle
        Road runs above avg.= 49.6%

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        • Commerce Comet.
          They don’t think it be like it is, but it do.

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          • Does anyone know what Mickey's right handed slash line was at Yankee Stadium?

            We can't really compare these two fairly without that.
            Floyd Gondolli
            Registered User
            Last edited by Floyd Gondolli; 05-11-2020, 10:30 AM.

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            • I have to say I also gained more respect for Ted Kluzweski (if that's right) too.
              "The first draft of anything is crap." - Ernest Hemingway

              There's no such thing as an ultimate stat.

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              • 30 home runs in a season, right handed Yankees, 1923-1975:

                Screen Shot 2020-05-11 at 1.28.23 PM.png

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
                  30 home runs in a season, right handed Yankees, 1923-1975:

                  Screen Shot 2020-05-11 at 1.28.23 PM.png
                  Getting off the theme, that Joe Gordon RH with 30 homers at Yankee Stadium caught my eye. Took a look, 15 home and 15 road, only 2 hit to RF at home.
                  Had no idea 253 career home runs, two years in the service age 29 and 30. Very possible with those two years in the service, could have been a career 300 home run hitter, prior to 1950.
                  Add to that a middle infielder, bigger than I thought 180 Lbs.
                  Took a spot check stats for his first 3 seasons 1938-1940. He led all AL 2nd basemen in almost all offensive stats and was second in walks with 432 only 4 behind the leader.
                  Anyway, after all these years following the game, I see Joe Gordon a lot better that I thought he was.

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                  • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                    Anyway, after all these years following the game, I see Joe Gordon a lot better that I thought he was.
                    Good to hear!!!

                    Most carer HR, All RHH, NYY Players, Old Yankee Stadium.

                    Screen Shot 2020-05-11 at 5.45.18 PM.png

                    Fenway, same years:

                    Screen Shot 2020-05-11 at 5.48.08 PM.png

                    Of the top 2 in home runs at Fenway:

                    --At Yankee Stadium Bobby Doerr's career tOPS (his OPS+ compared to all other parks) was 31. .200/.272/.257 career in 135 games there.

                    --Jimmie Foxx, tOPS 54. .263/.349/.441 career line there. Foxx hit only 18 home runs at Yankee Stadium in 153 games.
                    Floyd Gondolli
                    Registered User
                    Last edited by Floyd Gondolli; 05-11-2020, 03:52 PM.

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                    • Kind of a surprise to me, Jimmie Foxx only 18 homeruns at Yankee Stadium, 153 games, that was season back then.
                      I know Yankee Stadium was tough for the long ball for RH hitters, but he is Jimmie Foxx.
                      He did play at NY from1925 to 1936 when the park was deeper in CF, 490 feet.
                      Surprised played only 4 games his first 3 seasons.

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                      • This is a really tough comp: DiMaggio vs. Mantle.

                        1. Can someone outline for everyone DiMaggio's fielding splits and explain how he was adversely affected by patrolling YS for 13 seasons?

                        2. Did Mantle suffer the same CF/home field issues/splits with fielding because of Yankee Stadium?

                        brett
                        Registered User
                        brett
                        layson27
                        Registered User
                        layson27 , how does DiMaggio fare in the most updated iteration of rrOPS+ and what would his OPS+ have been in a neutral park? How about career projections with war credit?

                        Any insights the statistical/historical mavens here could provide would be hugely appreciated.

                        Thanks, everyone!

                        PS: Food for thought...

                        DiMaggio in a neutral (NOT a hitters' park), with war credit, and an extra year in 1952 (note: he was held back in the PCL in 1934-1935). This is obviously with the 154 game schedule, also. If this was prorated 162 games/season, he'd likely pass Henry Aaron for the all time lead in RBI.

                        (In only 17 seasons!!)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                          Kind of a surprise to me, Jimmie Foxx only 18 homeruns at Yankee Stadium, 153 games, that was season back then.
                          I know Yankee Stadium was tough for the long ball for RH hitters, but he is Jimmie Foxx.
                          He did play at NY from1925 to 1936 when the park was deeper in CF, 490 feet.
                          Surprised played only 4 games his first 3 seasons.
                          Foxx is an all-time great but is nevertheless overrated in my opinion. I routinely see him ranked as one of the top 5 or 6 hitters ever - and ahead of DiMaggio - which is preposterous. Foxx was helped by his home parks and we all know how bad Yankee stadium was for RH power hitters.

                          Road rates:
                          Foxx .307/.405/.560
                          DiMaggio .334/.406/.611

                          My top 10 players:

                          1. Babe Ruth
                          2. Barry Bonds
                          3. Ty Cobb
                          4. Ted Williams
                          5. Willie Mays
                          6. Alex Rodriguez
                          7. Hank Aaron
                          8. Honus Wagner
                          9. Lou Gehrig
                          10. Mickey Mantle

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
                            This is a really tough comp: DiMaggio vs. Mantle.

                            1. Can someone outline for everyone DiMaggio's fielding splits and explain how he was adversely affected by patrolling YS for 13 seasons?
                            His fielding splits reveal Yankee Stadium cost him both putouts and assists. A lot of them.

                            2. Did Mantle suffer the same CF/home field issues/splits with fielding because of Yankee Stadium?
                            No. The opposite, possibly because of the HR rate skyrocketing in the 1950's as more and more hitters tried more often to hit the ball out of the park. Mantle probably had a lot more opportunities in YS to catch flyballs than DiMaggio.


                            brett
                            Registered User
                            brett
                            layson27
                            Registered User
                            layson27 , how does DiMaggio fare in the most updated iteration of rrOPS+ and what would his OPS+ have been in a neutral park? How about career projections with war credit?

                            Any insights the statistical/historical mavens here could provide would be hugely appreciated.
                            Sabermetrically it depends on how many Rbat and Rfield/Fraa you plug into the equation. I'm not sure how many Rbat DiMaggio's rrOPS+ converts to. His true worth as a fielder is hard to quantify due to BBRef regressions and Tom Thress' much narrower defensive runs spectrum.

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