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Cuban Players Defectors

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  • #76
    Fermin Lafita -- I know you're involved with Pena and I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just telling you how baseball scouts think. Last year, there were a bunch of 20-something Cubans in the draft and only one of them -- Yunel Escobar -- was drafted in the first 10 rounds. About 8 others either signed for $5,000 late in the draft or didn't get drafted at all.

    If there were 50 scouts at his first game 10 days ago and he still didn't get listed in the Baseball America lists, then something is going on. Either the scouts didn't think he'd be drafted in the first 3-4 rounds, or they think he's older than he is. Even when Cubans are telling the truth, a lot of scouts assume the player is even 2-3-4 years older. That's just the way it is, and you can blame Joe Cubas and a few other agents for that.

    As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

    I hope Pena does well. I have no reason to root against him. I'm just giving my opinion here.
    Last edited by Agente Libre; 02-04-2006, 10:59 AM.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by jon7jmets

      I guess he is trying to put some number in the minor and try to sign a better contract then. He certainly has no place with the Mets.

      Comment


      • #78
        The Mets will hold his rights for 6 years, so this was a very strange move. The Marlins were reportedly interested but probably offered a smaller signing bonus. Abreu should have still signed with Florida. He has no chance in N.Y. unless people get hurt.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Agente Libre
          The Mets will hold his rights for 6 years, so this was a very strange move. The Marlins were reportedly interested but probably offered a smaller signing bonus. Abreu should have still signed with Florida. He has no chance in N.Y. unless people get hurt.

          What is the purpose in signing for one year then?

          Comment


          • #80
            Going back to Hassan Pena, Yunel Escobar did not attend college in USA and still was drafted in the second round in 2005. So if the scouts think you are good, somebody will select you. Escobar was almost 22 when he was selected.

            However, a lot of publicity does not hurt and it would had been better for Pena to be included among the top college prospects.

            Comment


            • #81
              Abreu did not sign for one year; he signed for 6 years. There is no such thing as a 1-year minor league contract for first-time professional players. Abreu, like a lot of other defectors, has a brand new agent (Bernie McGregor) and the agent probably does not know what he's talking about.

              As for Yunel Escobar, he got lucky. He basically lied about his age and his stats -- he told teams he was an all-star and that he was a .350 hitter in Cuba -- and the Braves apparently believed him. According to the Miami Herald, he also trained with a bunch of released players who were no good, so that made him look better when the scouts watched.

              The bottom line is, if Hassan Pena outperforms the league he's playing in, he should be okay in the draft. But it will take more than a 90-mph fastball for him to get drafted in the high rounds. He will need to look polished, mature, etc. Again, as a 21-year-old, he will be looked at differently than a 17 or 18-year-old. That's just the reality of scouting.

              After that, teams will know he's probably desperate to sign, so it's not automatic that he'll get a big bonus even if he's drafted high. Escobar got lucky and was drafted by a team with money. If Pena gets drafted by the Reds or Royals or Brewers, they might offer him $10,000 and say "take it or leave it."

              Comment


              • #82
                All of these problems with Cuban players would be greatly solved by granting them free agency like others.

                How in the world MLB invites Cuba to compete in the WBC and does not grant Cuban players free agent status?

                As a result, you have those players that go to another country wasting time to get legal documents. You also have players like Hassan Pena that should be playing in high A or AA trying to enter the 2006 draft risking an injury.


                I hope thing change for the better soon.

                Comment


                • #83
                  yanks and mets after Bárbaro Cañizares

                  http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...l/13386734.htm
                  Last edited by jon7jmets; 02-06-2006, 05:51 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by jon7jmets
                    yanks and mets after Bárbaro Cañizares

                    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...l/13386734.htm

                    I think he signed with the Braves already.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Agente Libre
                      Fermin Lafita -- I know you're involved with Pena and I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just telling you how baseball scouts think. Last year, there were a bunch of 20-something Cubans in the draft and only one of them -- Yunel Escobar -- was drafted in the first 10 rounds. About 8 others either signed for $5,000 late in the draft or didn't get drafted at all.

                      If there were 50 scouts at his first game 10 days ago and he still didn't get listed in the Baseball America lists, then something is going on. Either the scouts didn't think he'd be drafted in the first 3-4 rounds, or they think he's older than he is. Even when Cubans are telling the truth, a lot of scouts assume the player is even 2-3-4 years older. That's just the way it is, and you can blame Joe Cubas and a few other agents for that.

                      As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

                      I hope Pena does well. I have no reason to root against him. I'm just giving my opinion here.
                      Yep Age is factor One of the Cubans got drafted, signed and plays with my brother for the Twins Org. i met him Personally and man he looks older then me and i'm 30... If i'm a scout why would i want to look at someone thats doesn't have room to develop in the future thats the reason why alot of them left late in the draft... Trust me scout see alot and Baseball America if they didn't list him they know why...

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        You must be talking about Jose Cordero. I think he was telling scouts he was 21 or 22 last year. He's at least mid-20's and maybe even older.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Yeah i didn't want to say names lolol but you said it...

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Who said that age doesnt matter?

                            Our discussion dealt with whether, assuming Hassan is 20, which he is, it matters that he plays against 18 and 19 year olds. That is a different discussion than whether Cubans or other players have lied about their age in the past. I havent said that age doesnt matter. I simply said that if Hassan is really 20 then it doesnt matter if plays against 19 year olds. On his team there are a couple of kids that are under control that are older than Hassan. Do you think that their respective teams dont get excited whent those kids play well because they are 20?

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                            • #89
                              As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

                              So what you are saying is that Scouts would preferred to see a Kid like Hassan pitched well in workouts in another country versus seeing him pitch against JUCO kids? Nobody knows how high the kid is going to get drafted, but he wont be penalized because he pitches well against JUCO kids, Now if he got shelled by JUCO kids, that would be a problem. You are saying that doing well against JUCO kids is worst for a Cuban than not playing at all. I guess we'll see soon, Bermudez the other kid that came with him isnt playing anywhere. We'll see if that is better strategy. As long as Hassan doesnt get hurt, he is better off playing at a community college if he wasnt going the FA rout than not playing at all. The FA rout was not really an option in his case for reasons personal to Hassan and his family

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Hassan Pena's not being noticed?

                                I think it all comes down to timing with Hassan Pena. I think the kid has lots of potential and really good stuff, but the reason there isn't so much noise about him is that he hasn't been playing for a long time in the USA. If Hassan just pitched his second game in the Jupiter leage a couples of days ago is impossible the MLB scouts have enough data on his pitching style, pitch count, average velocity per pitch and per game, ERA and so forth.... What I really think is happening with Hassan is that the MLB scouts are being really careful not to prejudge, prequlify or label this young cuban pitcher. Once Hassan Pena has pitched 20 or so games then we may see MLB scouts writing their recomendations for MLB teams.
                                With Penas' unique situation (One of the few Cuban baseball players able to show his stuff in USA soil and willing to participate on the draft) the MLB scouts have the luxury of taking their time, as opposed to makind decisons after only seen a cuban baseball player play once, they feel no hurry to make Hassan Pena a priority just yet.

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