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  • #16
    Originally posted by dominik View Post
    Anyone heard of this guy? he seems to be babe ruth.

    seriously, he is a just turned 20 year old pitcher that has thrown 101 MPH but he also is a very good hitter and played the OF on non pitching days.

    in his second NBP season he pitched 153 innings for a 2.6 ERA (10 Ks per 9) but he also had an .842 OPS with 10 HRs in 230 PAs.

    he will have to Play several more seasons in the NBP before he becomes eligible but he already seems like the biggest Talent ever coming from Japan. the question is whether he will become a pitcher or an OFer because he seems to be very good at both. he also has a big Body for a japanese at 6"3 190 Pounds.

    Well done!!!



    I'm not a fan of positional adjustments for WAR, but since a hitting pitcher is super incredible should Otani get a bazillion adjustment points for what he's doing?



    Otani is so good that it appears nobody even with their wildest dreams and predictions saw him being this good at both things.
    Last edited by scottmitchell74; 09-21-2022, 11:09 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DaClyde View Post
      Regardless of whether he can both hit and pitch, no MLB team would have him doing both. So whichever skill he settles into will be the one that really determines his talent level. In that case, he will either be compared to Darvish/Tanaka or Ichiro/Matsui (either Hideki or Kazuo). So far, he's not at either level yet.
      Oof!.......
      My top 10 players:

      1. Babe Ruth
      2. Barry Bonds
      3. Ty Cobb
      4. Ted Williams
      5. Willie Mays
      6. Alex Rodriguez
      7. Hank Aaron
      8. Honus Wagner
      9. Lou Gehrig
      10. Mickey Mantle

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      • #18
        The real question is why don't more players do what Ohtani is doing? According to Statcast half the position players in the league are capable of throwing the ball 100 MPH, so why don't more of them pitch as well?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by willshad View Post
          The real question is why don't more players do what Ohtani is doing? According to Statcast half the position players in the league are capable of throwing the ball 100 MPH, so why don't more of them pitch as well?
          I'm betting...much like the 4:00 mile or Mt. Everest...now that people have seen it done, in 5-10 years there will be quite a few at least attempting it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by willshad View Post
            The real question is why don't more players do what Ohtani is doing? According to Statcast half the position players in the league are capable of throwing the ball 100 MPH, so why don't more of them pitch as well?
            Only 13 out of 100s of position players threw 100 this season and most of them probably did with some kind of run up.

            Also pitching is insanely hard, just throwing 100 is not enough to make it anymore, you need at least decent command and a good breaking ball. Plenty of guys thowing upper 90s not making it past AA ball.

            To be even a 100 ops+ hitter or a 4.5 era starter you need to work extremely hard and doing both is unthinkable for most.

            However I could see some teams abusing the dual player rule to make a position player the designated mop up guy.

            I would totally do it, of course not have albert pujols lob it in at 65 but have a strong armed 4th outfielder or utility infielder (so it doesn't hurt too much if he hurts his arm) throw a pen twice a week and throw upper 80s fastballs mixed in with some hanging curveballs so it stays somewhat watchable but saves the pen.
            ​​​​
            I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by dominik View Post

              Only 13 out of 100s of position players threw 100 this season and most of them probably did with some kind of run up.

              Also pitching is insanely hard, just throwing 100 is not enough to make it anymore, you need at least decent command and a good breaking ball. Plenty of guys thowing upper 90s not making it past AA ball.

              To be even a 100 ops+ hitter or a 4.5 era starter you need to work extremely hard and doing both is unthinkable for most.

              However I could see some teams abusing the dual player rule to make a position player the designated mop up guy.

              I would totally do it, of course not have albert pujols lob it in at 65 but have a strong armed 4th outfielder or utility infielder (so it doesn't hurt too much if he hurts his arm) throw a pen twice a week and throw upper 80s fastballs mixed in with some hanging curveballs so it stays somewhat watchable but saves the pen.
              ​​​​
              I've always wondered at what minimum level of dual performance would it be worth for a dual player?

              110 OPS+/110 ERA+?

              120 OPS+/120 ERA+?

              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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              • #22
                Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post

                I'm betting...much like the 4:00 mile or Mt. Everest...now that people have seen it done, in 5-10 years there will be quite a few at least attempting it.
                Even today not many people can run a sub 4:00 mile. It take a certain minimum amount of elite talent, that the vast majority of people do not have, to run that fast.
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

                  I've always wondered at what minimum level of dual performance would it be worth for a dual player?

                  110 OPS+/110 ERA+?

                  120 OPS+/120 ERA+?
                  I think 90/90 would be valuable already if he is able to play the field. A 90 ops+ is a good bench bat/utility player and a 90 era+ is a solid 5th starter or middle reliever and getting both from one roster spot would be great.

                  However if the player has to DH like ohtani that changes because an average DH has like a 105 to 110 ops+ and having a 90 ops+ DH isn't valuable at all.

                  So a DH/pitcher would need to reach the production treshold of a DH to contribute any value with the bat (league average at DH was a 107 wrc+ this season).


                  ​​​​​​With pitching I think not much is changing, you still would be a positive at a 90 era+ here because every pitching staff needs pitching depth and even good teams 5th starters are usually not better than a 90 era+ or so.

                  Btw of course ohtani could play the field, he is one of the fastest players in the league and should be at least an average right fielder or so, but he is too valuable to risk getting hurt that way.

                  A 90/90 guy would have the "advantage" that him getting hurt is not the end of the world, if your 90 ops+/era+ guy gets hurt you can always call up a 85 guy from AAA and not lose much production.
                  Last edited by dominik; 10-06-2022, 11:40 PM.
                  I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Teams still carry five starters?
                    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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