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2021 World Baseball Classic

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  • Kino Sports Complex in Tucson,AZ
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    • Brazilian Baseball blog writer Almir Lima Jr. tweets that Brazil, Germany, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Philippines & South Africa will be grouped together to play March 12th-17th in Tucson, AZ. He also tweeted that CBBS President, Jorge Otsuka confirmed that Barry Larkin will return as Brazil's Manager. The top two teams from this group will advance to the 2021 WBC.


      If this is true, then the other group would consist of Czech Republic, France, Great Britain, Pakistan, Panama & Spain, to play sometime from March 18th-26th in Tucson,AZ. Due to the relegated teams not mentioned in the first group, we can speculate that the Main Event is expanding to Twenty teams. Also, this timing makes more sense, because Nicaragua is also in the Americas Qualifier for the Tokyo 2020 also in Arizona from March 22nd-26th.


      • Sure does sound like the tourney is expanding from 16 to 20, since MEX, CAN, CHN, and, TPE aren't in the qualifiers. I actually don't like that, because I think they got the format correct this past classic. I wonder how a 6-team grouping will work for the qualifiers, especially where 2 teams would need to advance. My first thought was round robin, but that would be 5 games each, and if there were no days off, that would heavily test the pitching staffs on qualifier teams. If there were days off, then it would put the ace's back into each teams 5th game, and kind of make the order teams play each other more crucial, which doesn't seem competitively balanced.


        • Have an Australian umpire friend who has been assigned tk work the wbc qualifier 12-17 in Tucson


          • I don’t know about the games 17-26 in Tucson people are referring to. I do know about 12-17 and then I’m one of the offices scorers for the Olympic Qualifier 20-26 in Phoenix.


            • PLowry

              Mexico argued unsuccessfully that they deserved to be in the Seventh Game Playoff vs. Italy because the Defensive Outs wording had never been mentioned in the Pre-Tournament meetings. If Mexico had been given credit for the 9th inning pitched vs. Italy, even with with no Defensive Outs recorded, then their Runs Allowed / Innings Pitched would have been (10+9)/(9+9) = 19/18 = 1.056 = second lowest value = Third Place, and therefore they should be in the Seventh Game Playoff vs. Italy instead of Venezuela.

              mexico is full of crap. They knew the rules. I knew the rules sitting at home. After they beat Venezuela my Venezuelan friend wrote me and said sorry no visit to San Diego. I said why not? You guys qualified over Mexico because Mexico didn’t record an out in the 9th. He said oh crap you are right and talked to his federation. The problem was the announcers media and everyone had it wrong and Inflamed the issue by saying Mexico made it through. It’s not the first time Mexico did this especially in their country. When a tiebreak fairly eliminates them from the bronze medal game in the 2011 16u they strong armed a change to the rules. Taipei showed up to rightfully play and when they wouldn’t leave Mexico called the police to make them leave. It was craziness.


              • I would have thought the lack of re-qualification was to make sure China would stay in as MLB didn't want to risk their limited exposure to that big market (just like the NBA always has China's interests in mind).

                What I don't understand is having the same teams back for the qualifiers is that Sri Lanka has finished ahead of Pakistan in 3 of 4 tournaments from 2017-2019. Why not include Sri Lanka instead if they want two Asian teams in the qualifiers? Is this again having to do with trying to develop baseball in a larger market?


                • Based on the only bits of WBC news that have somehow made it out, we can speculate about the 2020 WBCQ format. I have seeded both 6 team groups based on their current WBSC ranks into a modified double elimination bracket:

                  March 12th
                  • Game 1- (33) Philippines vs (23) South Africa
                  • Game 2- (51) New Zealand vs (22) Germany
                  March 13th
                  • Game 3- Winner 1 vs (15) Nicaragua
                  • Game 4- Winner 2 vs (17) Brazil
                  March 14th
                  • Game 5- Loser 2 vs Loser 3
                  • Game 6- Loser 1 vs Loser 4
                  March 15th
                  • Game 7- Winner 3 vs Winner 4
                  • Game 8- Winner 5 vs Winner 6
                  March 16th
                  • Game 9- Loser 7 vs Winner 8
                  March 18th Group Finals
                  • Game 10- Winner 9 vs Winner 7
                  March 19th
                  • Game 1- (26) Spain vs (25) France
                  • Game 2- (38) Great Britain vs (24) Pakistan
                  March 20th
                  • Game 3- Winner 1 vs (13) Panama
                  • Game 4- Winner 2 vs (18) Czech Republic
                  March 21st
                  • Game 5- Loser 2 vs Loser 3
                  • Game 6- Loser 1 vs Loser 4
                  March 22nd
                  • Game 7- Winner 3 vs Winner 4
                  • Game 8- Winner 5 vs Winner 6
                  March 23rd
                  • Game 9- Loser 7 vs Winner 8
                  March 25th Group Finals
                  • Game 10- Winner 9 vs Winner 7

                  All of the teams that make the Group Finals qualify for the WBC and may just be used to seed those teams into the main event.


                  • Good breakdown Southwest. This looks like a traditional double-elimination 6-team bracket. I'm surprised this is the choice for a couple reasons.

                    The first reason is that the last game in each pool is very anti-climatic. In the posted format, once two teams are left standing and have locked into the bid, they take the first day-off in the action and then play a game just for seeding. Not only that, but these will presumably be the last teams in of course, and their placement will likely be along geographical lines rather than seed. It's really not a game worth waiting 2 days for.

                    Second, the format is grueling for day 1 teams. For example: the winners of the March 12th games play the following day against higher ranked teams, since those teams earned a bye with their seed. If they falter on the second day, they have to play a team on the third day that lost on day one, but didn't have to play a top team the prior day. So despite winning on day 1, they have a disadvantage against a team that lost on day one, since they'll be putting third starter against a top-2 starter (could even be their ace, based on this format teams could easily opt to open with their #2 starter if they play day one for this reason) in an elimination game. Not to mention that the WBC rules limit bullpen availability based on pitch count regulation. So the advantage on day three is all the way to the team that lost day one. Kinda weird.

                    Then, if that day 1 winner loses day 2 but overcomes the disadvantage (because that's why we play the games of course) on day 3, then they have to play the 4th day against a team likely in a similar situation depending on how things go, setting them up for an elimination game with their 5th starter (which is hard for even major league teams to find) and playing against a team playing likely only their third game.

                    I'm not exited about this change.


                    • Originally posted by Sidewinder22 View Post
                      Sure does sound like the tourney is expanding from 16 to 20, since MEX, CAN, CHN, and, TPE aren't in the qualifiers.
                      It's an open question I feel on whether China would qualify if they were in one. Maybe MLB doesn't want to find out.

                      Panama and someone else from Group A. Nicaragua and Brazil from Group B.
                      Last edited by Cincy Fan; 01-07-2020, 05:06 AM.


                      • Yeah I'm not sure if I really like the double elimination as it produces a useless seeding game. The above post illustrated it well.


                        • Different ideas for the 2023 WBC Qualifier format?

                          I didn't really care for the WBCQ format the WBC Steering Commitee chose for the this year's qualifier event. However, the postponement of the WBCQ gives us an opportunity to rethink its competitive format. First let's split up the field in three pots of four teams:
                          • Pot A (2016 WBCQ 2nd place teams) South Africa, Nicaragua, Panama & Great Britain
                          • Pot B (2016 WBCQ 3rd place teams) New Zealand, Czech Republic, France & Brazil
                          • Pot C (2016 WBCQ 4th place teams) Philippines, Germany, Spain & Pakistan

                          Geographic limits per Pool:
                          • Americas- 1 team minimum
                          • Europe- 1 team minimum & 2 team maximum
                          • Africa/Asia/Oceania- 1 team minimum & 2 team maximum

                          Competitively balanced Pool configurations based on Pots
                          • One Pool- Two teams from Pot A & two teams from Pot C
                          • Two Pools- One team from Pot A, two teams from Pot B & one team from Pot C

                          WBCQ First Round
                          • Three pools of four teams
                          • Round robin play, 3 games each
                          • Each pool winner advances to the 2023 WBC
                          • Second and third place teams remain to play in the next round
                          • TQB tie breaker system

                          WBCQ Second Round (Final Qualifier)
                          • Six team double elimination format
                          • TQB used for seeding (2nd place teams seeded 1st,2nd,3rd and 3rd place teams seeded 4th,5th,6th)
                          • Winner advances to the 2023 WBC

                          Two rounds would prolong the qualifier duration, but a second round could be more competitive and yield a stronger final qualifying team. Also, the weaker teams would be guaranteed three games instead of two. How would you format the next WBC Qualifiers?
                          Last edited by SouthwestAmAZins; 07-25-2020, 06:37 AM.


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