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2021 World Baseball Classic

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Jak View Post

    I don't think MLB would give them that easy of a path(If they did, I put my money on New Zealand).It would probably be a combination of China Pakistan/Philippines, France and Brazil.Where China could probably pull out some wins or loses. Where they can probably beat a weaker team like Philippines and Pakistan, play a close game with France and maybe pull an upset with Brazil. But these are all hypothicals. MLB is transparent but not transparent enough.

    In reality, MLB would never put China in the same group as Panama or Nicaragua as they invested too much money and time into that country. Not saying they'll put them in a China/Philippine/Pakistan/New Zealand group, but in a group where they will have a chance to make it and be competitive.They will have no chance to make it if put in the same group as Panama and/or Nicaragua. At the very least, they want China to have one win.or make it to the finals(Assuming double elimination is kept). Something along the lines of a Australia/South Africa/New Zealand/Philippines group. Where South Africa made it to the finals and was competitive with Australia until the last few innings. And the game before that, had beat a solid New Zealand team.

    MLB is transparent but not transparent enough. If that was the case, Nicaragua and Colombia would have been in the WBC in 2006 over China and South Africa or any other team ranked ahead of Israel when the 2012 qualifiers took place like Argentina, Belgium,Curacao, or teams with a stronger federation and international tournament presence like Russia or Honduras. China will not have a straightforward easy path, but it definitely will not involve strong teams like Panama or Nicaragua.
    You are either underestimating China or overestimating Panama and Nicaragua. Brazil beat Panama twice to qualify for the 2013 WBC & then lost to China in that event. Nicaragua barely beat Germany and the Czech Republic in the 2016 WBCQ and those teams could be worse than China. I don't think China is that much of a pushover and could benefit from tougher competition. They have been placed in Japan for every WBC, so they could handle the potential hostile environment.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by PLowry View Post



      3. Initiate a 16-nation Women's WBC in Summer 2020. Make certain there is no conflict in dates with the 2020 Tokyo Summer Olympics.

      It is always a great idea to get ahead of the curve on gender equity. Three years of planning, from 2017 through 2020, should be sufficient. Use WBSC Women's rankings to choose the top 16 nations as participants.

      Hold the First Round and Second Round around the globe, with First Round pools in Japan, Canada, USA and Australia; Second Round pools in Japan and Canada.

      Hold the Final Round in Yankee Stadium. Perhaps in our lifetimes, there may be a Women's MLB (WMLB), partially supported by MLB, and patterned after the NBA/WNBA model.).
      This post is absolutely hilarious. Why would MLB want to create a women's version of the WBC? Majority of people don't know that women play baseball and waste money on something that people won't show up or watch it on tv. If they ever have the finals at Yankee Stadium it would have like 200 people (I'm being generous) in attendance.

      Creating a Womens MLB will the biggest mistake in the history of MLB. Look at the NBA they lose money every single year because a lot of people don't show up to the games and the ratings are really awful. The only reason wnba is still around because the NBA can't close it because feminist will call them sexist, misogynistic etc. it will be a bad PR for the Association. MLB creating a wmlb would be a disaster financially.

      As as for gender equality well I'm not going to get into it because this a baseball site not a social site.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by SouthwestAmAZins View Post

        You are either underestimating China or overestimating Panama and Nicaragua. Brazil beat Panama twice to qualify for the 2013 WBC & then lost to China in that event. Nicaragua barely beat Germany and the Czech Republic in the 2016 WBCQ and those teams could be worse than China. I don't think China is that much of a pushover and could benefit from tougher competition. They have been placed in Japan for every WBC, so they could handle the potential hostile environment.
        I disagree. I think you putting too much stock into China. When Brazil beat Panama twice to qualify for the 2013, that WBCQ team had former and current minors as well as players from Nippon Profession Baseball and Japan Industrial League. Should the team have made it that far? No, but that team was no slouch either. If anything that team was underrated. Brazil also certified itself when it almost beat Japan and held their own against Cuba. Just because Brazil lost to China on a bad day does not mean China can beat or hold their own against Panama, Nicaragua or Brazil.
        Nicaragua barely beat Germany because the starter for that game was Markus Solbach, a former prospect and MiLB player at the time. Germany also had former and current minor leaguers in their lineup to hold their own against Nicaragua who too had former and current minor leaguers on their team. Only reason they lost was because they brought in a 42 year old reliever way past their prime to get the final out instead of someone fresh.

        Nicaragua barely beat Czech Republic because after their starter was taken out, Alex Sogard another former prospect and MiLB player at the time came out of the bullpen and pitch five innings and only gave up two runs. Czech Republic also had some former minor leaguers on their team.

        I highly disagree that Germany and Czech Republic could be worse then China because of those game against Nicaragua. To say that is inaccurate. Czech Republic almost beat Mexico, the same country that beat South Korea in the 2017 Summer Universiade but China might somehow be better because?

        My main point in all of this is China does not have the player depth Panama and Nicaragua will have or possibly half of the teams in the tournament. Panama and Nicaragua team will be full of current and former minor leaguers,more current then former, and possibly a major leaguer if Cheslor Cuthbert gets permission to play. China meanwhile, will be full of players from their own baseball league which isn't very strong along with three minor leaguers and maybe a Chinese-American or two.Not to mention that none of those players in their league ever signed with any MLB team. Player depth on national teams in tournament like these, particularly in qualifiers, is important. The more players you have affiliated or were affiliated with MLB or even NPB,KBO, MBL, the better the chance of making it to the WBC or at the very least, win a game or two. Now that not saying teams with no players affiliated with MLB can't have a good game against top teams every now and then or win, it's baseball. France beat Spain and almost beat Panama but to say China isn't that much of a push over is comparing apples to oranges. China has already faced tough competition for all four WBCs facing the likes of Japan(four times),South Korea(twice) and Cuba(twice) on multiple occasions. IDK what a hostile environment would have to do with the Chinese national team. I'm also not saying China is going to get smoked and lose 15- nothing with no hits. More like 6 or 7-nothing with very little amount of hits. Something along the lines of, the game against Japan in the 2017 WBC where they scored one run and got only five hits. That's not to say China has not improved since 2006 but they are no where near the strength of Panama or Nicaragua in terms of player depth or any decently strong teams in this tournament.

        I'm not saying China shouldn't be in the same group as Nicaragua or Panama,by all means let them. Have them earn it rather then an semi easy group of weaker national teams but 1. MLB would never do that because of the investments they have made there along with the giant market 2. If China were in the same group of a Nicaragua or Panama,they have a very little chance of making it and I wouldn't expect a close game between them either. It wouldn't surprise me at all if MLB did a group of China/Philippines/Great Britain/Brazil considering MLB is trying to break into China and Great Britain. And when Brazil made it to the WBC in 2013, that's another market MLB to potentially look into since it has a size of 200,000,000 people, second biggest in the WBC tournament. And teams are already looking into Brazil with more players signing each year from there. So if any those three countries were in the same group and one of them made it to the WBC tournament, MLB would be very happy. But only time will tell when we know. We'll just have to wait until late 2019 to hear the announcements of the groups.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by SouthwestAmAZins View Post

          Baseball is not permanently back in the Olympics, it is only back for the 2020 Games. A new round of voting is needed for Paris 2024. The media seems to keep forgetting this detail. Check out this link: https://twitter.com/WBSC/status/935191720978939905
          Actually saw that link from the French Baseball Federation page. Thanks for that. I never understood on how sports get added or subtracted to the Olympics. I really don't know why the Olympics don't add more sports, especially those that are popular worldwide. Yes, I know it comes down to money and all that but I really wish they just add more sports.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Jak View Post

            I disagree. I think you putting too much stock into China. When Brazil beat Panama twice to qualify for the 2013, that WBCQ team had former and current minors as well as players from Nippon Profession Baseball and Japan Industrial League. Should the team have made it that far? No, but that team was no slouch either. If anything that team was underrated. Brazil also certified itself when it almost beat Japan and held their own against Cuba. Just because Brazil lost to China on a bad day does not mean China can beat or hold their own against Panama, Nicaragua or Brazil.
            Nicaragua barely beat Germany because the starter for that game was Markus Solbach, a former prospect and MiLB player at the time. Germany also had former and current minor leaguers in their lineup to hold their own against Nicaragua who too had former and current minor leaguers on their team. Only reason they lost was because they brought in a 42 year old reliever way past their prime to get the final out instead of someone fresh.

            Nicaragua barely beat Czech Republic because after their starter was taken out, Alex Sogard another former prospect and MiLB player at the time came out of the bullpen and pitch five innings and only gave up two runs. Czech Republic also had some former minor leaguers on their team.

            I highly disagree that Germany and Czech Republic could be worse then China because of those game against Nicaragua. To say that is inaccurate. Czech Republic almost beat Mexico, the same country that beat South Korea in the 2017 Summer Universiade but China might somehow be better because?

            My main point in all of this is China does not have the player depth Panama and Nicaragua will have or possibly half of the teams in the tournament. Panama and Nicaragua team will be full of current and former minor leaguers,more current then former, and possibly a major leaguer if Cheslor Cuthbert gets permission to play. China meanwhile, will be full of players from their own baseball league which isn't very strong along with three minor leaguers and maybe a Chinese-American or two.Not to mention that none of those players in their league ever signed with any MLB team. Player depth on national teams in tournament like these, particularly in qualifiers, is important. The more players you have affiliated or were affiliated with MLB or even NPB,KBO, MBL, the better the chance of making it to the WBC or at the very least, win a game or two. Now that not saying teams with no players affiliated with MLB can't have a good game against top teams every now and then or win, it's baseball. France beat Spain and almost beat Panama but to say China isn't that much of a push over is comparing apples to oranges. China has already faced tough competition for all four WBCs facing the likes of Japan(four times),South Korea(twice) and Cuba(twice) on multiple occasions. IDK what a hostile environment would have to do with the Chinese national team. I'm also not saying China is going to get smoked and lose 15- nothing with no hits. More like 6 or 7-nothing with very little amount of hits. Something along the lines of, the game against Japan in the 2017 WBC where they scored one run and got only five hits. That's not to say China has not improved since 2006 but they are no where near the strength of Panama or Nicaragua in terms of player depth or any decently strong teams in this tournament.

            I'm not saying China shouldn't be in the same group as Nicaragua or Panama,by all means let them. Have them earn it rather then an semi easy group of weaker national teams but 1. MLB would never do that because of the investments they have made there along with the giant market 2. If China were in the same group of a Nicaragua or Panama,they have a very little chance of making it and I wouldn't expect a close game between them either. It wouldn't surprise me at all if MLB did a group of China/Philippines/Great Britain/Brazil considering MLB is trying to break into China and Great Britain. And when Brazil made it to the WBC in 2013, that's another market MLB to potentially look into since it has a size of 200,000,000 people, second biggest in the WBC tournament. And teams are already looking into Brazil with more players signing each year from there. So if any those three countries were in the same group and one of them made it to the WBC tournament, MLB would be very happy. But only time will tell when we know. We'll just have to wait until late 2019 to hear the announcements of the groups.
            I don’t think I am putting too much stock into China, so much as putting less stock into Panama and Nicaragua. Apparently, it is only my perception that those teams repeatedly fail to defeat lesser opponents in a convincing manner. Nonetheless, I do believe your assessment of China is correct in that they won’t get blown out 15-0 with no hits, but more like 6-7 to nothing with a few hits. Regardless, higher ranked teams that don’t capitalize on the mistakes of their lesser opponents or commit detrimental mistakes of their own are obviously going to be at greater risk of losing those games.

            I don’t remember where I read or heard the following; the WBC Steering Committee is trying to avoid choosing hosts inside of the United States for the first rounds. If this is true, then the likelihood of China being placed in a difficult group is greatly increased, unless they host a qualifier round themselves. You and I agree that Taiwan and Mexico are the most likely to get to host; leaving only two openings available. The WBC Steering Committee has given us a few surprises over the years, maybe they have a few more in store for 2021.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by SouthwestAmAZins View Post

              I don’t think I am putting too much stock into China, so much as putting less stock into Panama and Nicaragua. Apparently, it is only my perception that those teams repeatedly fail to defeat lesser opponents in a convincing manner. Nonetheless, I do believe your assessment of China is correct in that they won’t get blown out 15-0 with no hits, but more like 6-7 to nothing with a few hits. Regardless, higher ranked teams that don’t capitalize on the mistakes of their lesser opponents or commit detrimental mistakes of their own are obviously going to be at greater risk of losing those games.
              Fair enough. I agree that "higher ranked teams that don’t capitalize on the mistakes of their lesser opponents or commit detrimental mistakes of their own are obviously going to be at greater risk of losing those games." Though I would argue that the lesser teams have gotten better in four years thus closer and more competitive games between higher tier teams like Panama and Mexico which is great to see.

              If it's true that the WBC steering committee is trying to avoid a US qualifier host, that's great in my personal opinion. I think it's neat and really cool to see stadiums from other countries in the WBCQ on television and/or online. If the US isn't in the qualifiers, no need for a US host but I understand why they do it if no other country puts in a submission or don't have a stadium up to international standards though I don't know how many other countries in the qualifiers have international standard stadiums. (Panama,Nicaragua,Canada,Mexico,Taiwan)
              Though if history of the qualifiers tell us some things, we might get similar things.

              In 2012, Canada, South Africa, Taiwan and Panama were regulated. The two regulated teams, Taiwan and Panama hosted qualifiers while Canada and South Africa did not. South Africa did not have a stadium and I forgot the reason why Canada did not want to host.

              In 2016, Mexico, Australia, Spain and Brazil were regulated. Mexico and Australia hosted hosted qualifiers while Spain and Brazil did not. Spain does have a stadium but I assume it is not brought up to international standards or they did not submit a proposal. They hosted the 2009 Baseball World Cup. I don't think Brazil has a baseball stadium or at least one brought up to international standards. Though I believe if baseball was in the Olympics in 2016, Brazil probably would have hosted because they would have build a brand new baseball stadium for the Olympics thus use it for the qualifier.

              I know their has only been two qualifiers but if we base it off that, we can expect two the four teams who were regulated to host a qualifier while the other two who were not regulated or regulated years ago to host. So since we agree that Mexico and Taiwan to host, their is a chance Canada and China will not host. I would also expect that because Israel is in the main tournament, we will not have any qualifier pools in September and that all the pools will take place in February and March. I also expect Nicaragua be given strong consideration to host considering they have a build a brand new stadium, Not to mention that same stadium hosted the 2017 Central American Games and the country will also host the U23 Baseball World Cup.And because their government and the President of Nicaragua greatly supports baseball in Nicaragua, I expect the Steering committee to give them a chance.

              Leaving a host spot open. If Canada declines, only countries I know that have strong stadiums are Panama and Germany though I saw a picture here of a baseball stadium in China. IDK if they want Panama to host again considering the last two times they lost in the final(Albeit to good teams) and nearly lost to France. Granted Panama along with Germany are the only countries to not make the WBC and host a qualifier. Maybe thirds time the charm with Panama and they get a semi easy group with China. Someone said Germany doesn't want to host which is a shame because I think that would be the perfect wildcard pool along with China, Great Britain and Brazil. If China does host, that be great! I can see a pool group of China/Brazil/Great/Philippines if China hosts. So I predict Mexico, Taiwan, Nicaragua to host. The last spot I predict either between US, Panama or China to host if that stadium is international standard friendly .


              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by SouthwestAmAZins View Post
                I don’t remember where I read or heard the following; the WBC Steering Committee is trying to avoid choosing hosts inside of the United States for the first rounds. If this is true, then the likelihood of China being placed in a difficult group is greatly increased, unless they host a qualifier round themselves. You and I agree that Taiwan and Mexico are the most likely to get to host; leaving only two openings available. The WBC Steering Committee has given us a few surprises over the years, maybe they have a few more in store for 2021.
                If the WBC Steering Committee really wants to surprise me, they should expand the main tournament from 16 to 24 teams along with expanded qualifier. At the very least, expand to 20. You get your strong baseball nations (Mexico, Canada,Taiwan,Panama,Nicaragua along with Curacao and Aruba),
                Growing baseball nations (Brazil, Bahamas, US Virgin Islands, New Zealand,Germany)
                Nations MLB wants to market(China, South Africa,Great Britain)
                Strong/Competitive "passport" teams (Ireland,Greece,Poland,Haiti)

                Will the WBC Steering Committee do it?No, not anytime soon that's for sure.
                20? Decent chance considering Mexico,Canada and Taiwan were all regulated a second time. With 20 gives counties like Panama and Nicaragua a spot they deserve along with Mexico,Canada and Taiwan(Assuming they win the pool) along with spots for up and coming baseball nations.

                Only one extra game for each pool in the first round. Also adds an off day for every team in the main tournament in the first round since each pool it held in one stadium and two games take place everyday in each pool. Also gives a chance to start hosting qualifying rounds in 2019 giving a two year heads up for WBC. Four for 2019 and four for 2020. Unless they want to host one each month in 2020 from Feb 2020 to Sept 2020.

                Though I feel like the only way an expansion takes place is if the four teams that were regulated miss out on qualifying for the 2021 WBC
                At the very least I wish they change the qualifier format from double elimination to something else along with including more teams in the qualifier.Sucks for teams to only play two games if you lose both of them. Makes me feel like they were never there. Also, who the heck is in the Steering committee? I can't seem to find the people who are part of it.



                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Jak View Post
                  Also, who the heck is in the Steering committee? I can't seem to find the people who are part of it.
                  I cannot find the list of member names, but I am only certain of one; WBSC President, Riccardo Fraccari. I am almost certain it is comprised of two MLB executives, two MLBPA executives, one NPB executive, one NPB Player's Union executive, one KBO executive, one KBO Players Union executive, two WBSC executives and three representatives from the Japanese media; for a total of thirteen members.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    The WBC Steering Committee from 2011

                    Steering Committee Members
                    Major League Baseball (2)
                    Tim Brosnan
                    Rob Manfred
                    MLB Players Association (2)
                    Michael Weiner
                    Timothy Slavin
                    International Baseball Federation (2)
                    Riccardo Fraccari
                    Israel Roldan
                    Nippon Professional Baseball (1)
                    Kunio Shimoda
                    Korean Baseball Organization (1)
                    Sang II Lee
                    Korean Professional Baseball Players Association (1)
                    Sean Kwon
                    Japan Professional Baseball Players Association (1)
                    Toru Matsubara
                    Members-at-large (3)
                    Shunsuke Kanda, Yomiuri Shimbun
                    Roland Betts
                    Pedro Cabrera Isidron, Cuba Federation


                    Source: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releas...=.jsp&c_id=mlb
                    Last edited by SouthwestAmAZins; 01-03-2018, 02:15 PM. Reason: Added Source Link

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