Announcement

**TheSlaff** · 08-17-2005, 02:50 PM

Best Player, number of times:

10x
Honus Wagner

9x
Babe Ruth
Mickey Mantle

8x
Rogers Hornsby

7x
Ty Cobb
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Barry Bonds

6x
Willie Mays
Mike Schmidt

4x
Dan Brouthers
Nap Lajoie
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Aaron
Joe Morgan
Alex Rodriguez

3x
Paul Hines
Ed Delahanty
Tris Speaker
Mel Ott
Joe DiMaggio
Johnny Mize
Carl Yastrzemski
Rickey Henderson
Frank Thomas
Jeff Bagwell

2x
Roger Connor
Pete Browning
Harry Stovey
Jesse Burkett
Benny Kauf
Gavvy Cravath
Paul Waner
Wally Berger
Snuffy Stirnweiss
Eddie Mathews
Frank Robinson
Dick Allen
Willie McCovey
Reggie Jackson
Dave Parker
Fred Lynn
George Brett
Cal Ripken
Ryne Sandberg
Tim Raines
Will Clark
Jason Giambi
Albert Pujols

1x
Ross Barnes
Deacon White
George Gore
Cap Anson
Fred Dunlap
Monte Ward
Charley Jones
Henry Larkin
Tip O'Neill
Tommy Tucker
Cupid Childs
Tom Brown
Sam Thompson
Jimmy Ryan
George Pinckney
Billy Hamilton
Hugh Duffy
Hughie Jennings
Willie Keeler
Jimmy Collins
Sam Crawford
George Stone
Sherry Magee
Frank Schulte
Eddie Collins
George Burns
Zack Wheat
Heinie Groh
Edd Roush
Frankie Frisch
Kenny Williams
Al Simmons
Hack Wilson
Lefty O'Doul
Arky Vaughan
Joe Medwick
Pete Reiser
Enos Slaughter
Luke Appling
Stan Hack
Earl Torgeson
Phil Rizzuto
Larry Doby
Al Rosen
Nellie Fox
Duke Snider
Tom Tresh
Tony Oliva
Ron Santo
Johnny Bench
Joe Torre
Bobby Murcer
Jeff Burroughs
Rod Carew
Jim Rice
Robin Yount
Wade Boggs
Alan Trammell
Jose Canseco
Ruben Sierra
Willie McGee
Roberto Alomar
John Olerud
Edgar Martinez
Albert Belle
Derek Jeter
Gary Sheffield
Mike Piazza
Mark McGwire
Jeff Kent

:gt

**ElHalo** · 08-17-2005, 05:00 PM

I like how everyone who's led the AL since 1999 (and probably again this year) currently plays for the Yankees. And we're still not making the playoffs.

**538280** · 08-17-2005, 07:07 PM

And in case anyone is wondering, the 2005 leaders so far are Gary Sheffield in the AL, and a tie between Derrek Lee and Albert Pujols in the NL.

**Dodger** · 08-18-2005, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by 538280

And in case anyone is wondering, the 2005 leaders so far are Gary Sheffield in the AL, and a tie between Derrek Lee and Albert Pujols in the NL.

How could Shef possibley be ahead or ARod. Alex is ahead in almost every offensive category (Runs, HR, RBI, AVG, OBP, SLG) and his OPS is .88 higher. He's played 3 more games, plays a tougher positon. Something's wrong with Guru James' formula.

**538280** · 08-18-2005, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Dodger

How could Shef possibley be ahead or ARod. Alex is ahead in almost every offensive category (Runs, HR, RBI, AVG, OBP, SLG) and his OPS is .88 higher. He's played 3 more games, plays a tougher positon. Something's wrong with Guru James' formula.

Sheffield has performed better in the clutch this year, and thus has been more valuable to his team. Even though James doesn't believe clutch hitting is a consistent skill, he does realize that if one player happens to do better in the clutch in one season, then he will be more valuable to the team, and thus he puts that into his Win Shares formula.

**Appling** · 08-19-2005, 06:32 PM

Lots of interesting stuff, when you lay it out in this manner (and leave out the pitchers).

Ruth and Hornsby certainly dominated the 1920's. Each led his league in WS seven of those ten seasons.

Ted Williams dominance is apparent from 1941 thru 1949: He led AL position players in Win Shares 1941 & 1942. took off three years for the War, and then led his league again 1946-47-48-49. That is six of six possible seasons.

Mickey Mantle dominance is also shown well -- from 1954 thru 1964. He led AL players in Win Shares in nine of those eleven seasons (including five in a row: 1954-58). Of course, Mantle didn't have to compete with Mays and Aaron, who battled each other in the NL over the same stretch of time.

**ElHalo** · 08-20-2005, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by 538280

Sheffield has performed better in the clutch this year, and thus has been more valuable to his team. Even though James doesn't believe clutch hitting is a consistent skill, he does realize that if one player happens to do better in the clutch in one season, then he will be more valuable to the team, and thus he puts that into his Win Shares formula.

Just wanted to point out:

In no way, shape, or form has Sheffield been more valuable to the Yankees than ARod has this season. There's just a flaw in the WS formula that Sheff happens to be exploiting this season.

**BoSox Rule** · 08-20-2005, 01:26 PM

WARP
Alex Rodriguez 7.8
Gary Sheffield 6.5

**RuthMayBond** · 08-20-2005, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by ElHalo

Just wanted to point out:

In no way, shape, or form has Sheffield been more valuable to the Yankees than ARod has this season. There's just a flaw in the WS formula that Sheff happens to be exploiting this season.

ElHalo sticking up for ARod?

**TheSlaff** · 08-20-2005, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by ElHalo

Just wanted to point out:

In no way, shape, or form has Sheffield been more valuable to the Yankees than ARod has this season. There's just a flaw in the WS formula that Sheff happens to be exploiting this season.

Originally posted by BoSox Rule

WARP
Alex Rodriguez 7.8
Gary Sheffield 6.5

Don't know if the answer in in defense?

Fielding Runs Above average:
Rodriguez is at -4
Sheffield is at +3

Maybe that could explain why Sheffield leads A-Rod in Win Shares?

**ElHalo** · 08-20-2005, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by RuthMayBond

ElHalo sticking up for ARod?

Don't get me wrong: I love Sheff and hate ARod. And last year, Arod was much, much, MUCH worse than his numbers. This year, though, much as I hate to say it, ARod has been a greater asset to the team.

**ElHalo** · 08-20-2005, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by TheSlaff

Don't know if the answer in in defense?

Fielding Runs Above average:
Rodriguez is at -4
Sheffield is at +3

Maybe that could explain why Sheffield leads A-Rod in Win Shares?

A below average defensive 3Bman still has more defensive value than an above average defensive RF'er.

**csh19792001** · 08-21-2005, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by ElHalo

Don't get me wrong: I love Sheff and hate ARod. And last year, Arod was much, much, MUCH worse than his numbers. This year, though, much as I hate to say it, ARod has been a greater asset to the team.

He's been much better this year, but his numbers have also overvalued him this year also. He's got a .262 average and a .440 slugging with runners in scoring position, in comparison to his deplorable .248 average and.439 slugging last year in the same situations.

**flash143817** · 08-21-2005, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by TheSlaff

Don't know if the answer in in defense?

Fielding Runs Above average:
Rodriguez is at -4
Sheffield is at +3

I was always under the impression that A-Rod was an outstanding defender. Is this season a fluke or has he always been overrated defensively?

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