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The most important pitching stat

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Dontworry
    Both ERA and WHIP are flawed, and the flaws in both are related to the defense behind the pitcher.
    A pitcher for a strong defensive team (one that takes away hits with its defense) will have a better WHIP than the same pitcher for a weak defensive team (one that gives away hits that might otherwise be outs).
    On the other hand, a pitcher for an error-prone team will see his ERA benefit from those errors when they're followed by hits and unearned runs, even though he's the one letting up those post-error hits. The same pitcher for a team that doesn't make errors will see his ERA take a hit because of the lack of unearned runs.
    Give me RPG -- runs allowed per game (nine innings).
    Interesting. but how much difference could a bad defensive team really make in improving a pitchers ERA?

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    • #62
      Well a bad team defense would make a pitcher's ERA worse...

      But in all seriousness, the difference between a good defense and a bad one is about 40 points in DER (defensive efficiency rating...the rate at which balls in play become outs)...that's...a pretty big swing. the normal DER is .690...bad teams are around .665-.670...good ones around around .710 (although the 2003 Mariners had an eye popping .721 DER)...that could have a tremendous impact on run scoring.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Dontworry
        Both ERA and WHIP are flawed, and the flaws in both are related to the defense behind the pitcher.
        A pitcher for a strong defensive team (one that takes away hits with its defense) will have a better WHIP than the same pitcher for a weak defensive team (one that gives away hits that might otherwise be outs).
        On the other hand, a pitcher for an error-prone team will see his ERA benefit from those errors when they're followed by hits and unearned runs, even though he's the one letting up those post-error hits. The same pitcher for a team that doesn't make errors will see his ERA take a hit because of the lack of unearned runs.
        Give me RPG -- runs allowed per game (nine innings).
        So total runs allowed is less defensive dependant than earned runs allowed? :noidea :noidea :noidea :noidea
        Johnson and now Goligoski gone.
        I hope that's all.

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        • #64
          no....I avoid the use of runs allowed (period) in my evaluation of pitchers. DIPS Theory makes it a lot easier to see what the pitcher is doing and what the fielders behind him are doing.

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          • #65
            There is no best pitching stat. You have to judge them on a variety of stats.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by SABR Matt
              no....I avoid the use of runs allowed (period) in my evaluation of pitchers. DIPS Theory makes it a lot easier to see what the pitcher is doing and what the fielders behind him are doing.
              I wish we had the same stats for pitchers as we have for offense.

              BTW, did you think I was questioning you or were just responding? I really want dontworry to answer that. I'm really confused.

              Originally posted by hogwash
              There is no best pitching stat. You have to judge them on a variety of stats.
              Totally agree there. Just like offense.
              Johnson and now Goligoski gone.
              I hope that's all.

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              • #67
                I was just responding...sorry...didn't mean to get in the way.

                Yeah...good pitching statistics aren't readily available in a "quick find" manner...I intend to fix that, but it's taking me a while to find programmers with any free time.

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