Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Teams like the 1991 Tigers

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Teams like the 1991 Tigers

    The 1991 Tigers, who I often sarcastically refer to as the sabermetric dream team, lead the league in HRs, Ks and BBs. I was curious if anybody could tell me if any other team has done this, I would assume its been done a handful of times before.

    Thank you in advance.
    THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

    In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

  • #2
    Originally posted by digglahhh
    The 1991 Tigers, who I often sarcastically refer to as the sabermetric dream team, lead the league in HRs, Ks and BBs. I was curious if anybody could tell me if any other team has done this, I would assume its been done a handful of times before.

    Thank you in advance.
    No sabermetrician would call the '91 Tigers a sabermetric dream team. Relatively weak pitching and HORRIBLE team defense do not a sabermetric dream team make.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by SABR Matt
      No sabermetrician would call the '91 Tigers a sabermetric dream team. Relatively weak pitching and HORRIBLE team defense do not a sabermetric dream team make.
      I think diglah was referring to the offense. I'm not sure why leading the league in Ks would be part of a dream but try the '76 Reds, '26-28, '30, '37-38 Yanks, '30 Cubs, '26 Cards, '11-12 Bosox?, '07 Giants. The '69 Bosox, '66 Tigers, '66 Braves, '65 Bosox, '62 Tigers, '52-55 Dodgers, 45 Yanks!, '36 Yanks!, 32 Phils, 31 Yanks were pretty close.
      Last edited by RuthMayBond; 02-07-2006, 06:42 PM.
      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by digglahhh
        The 1991 Tigers, who I often sarcastically refer to as the sabermetric dream team, lead the league in HRs, Ks and BBs. I was curious if anybody could tell me if any other team has done this, I would assume its been done a handful of times before.

        Thank you in advance.
        The sabermetric offensive dream team would be more like leading the league in OBP+, OPS+, OPS+ with RISP, and, if we could get it, SLG+ and HRs.
        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks a lot.

          The dream team part was obvious sarcasm. I basically meant that the 91 Tigers seem to support the idea that batting average is secondary to OBP and SLG and that walking is very important. They're offense was Adam Dunn on a team level, low BA, tons of Ks, lots of walks heavily reliant on slugging, yet overall highly productive. They were second in the league in runs scored and offer evidence that Ks are not really worse than other outs, and walking and slugging is a viable offensive strategy.

          With that said, I think that this team is somewhat of a mirage. The low average and high K totals are very much due to two players, Rob Deer and Pete Incagivlia- two weaker versions of Dave Kingman.
          THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

          In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RuthMayBond
            I think diglah was referring to the offense. I'm not sure why leading the league in Ks would be part of a dream but try the '76 Reds, '26-28, '30, '37-38 Yanks, '30 Cubs, '26 Cards, '11-12 Bosox?, '07 Yanks. The '69 Bosox, '66 Tigers, '66 Braves, '65 Bosox, '62 Tigers, '52-55 Dodgers, 45 Yanks!, '36 Yanks!, 32 Phils, 31 Yanks were pretty close.
            Ironically (or perhaps not) those teams are all great offensive teams. Pretty much sticks a dagger through the heart of the ElHalo offensive strategy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 538280
              Ironically (or perhaps not) those teams are all great offensive teams. Pretty much sticks a dagger through the heart of the ElHalo offensive strategy.
              Right, but did they all also have the lowest team BA in the league?
              THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

              In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by digglahhh
                Right, but did they all also have the lowest team BA in the league?
                38 Yanks were pretty close, 37 Yanks weren't far ahead/behind?
                Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by digglahhh
                  Thanks a lot.

                  The dream team part was obvious sarcasm. I basically meant that the 91 Tigers seem to support the idea that batting average is secondary to OBP and SLG and that walking is very important. They're offense was Adam Dunn on a team level, low BA, tons of Ks, lots of walks heavily reliant on slugging, yet overall highly productive. They were second in the league in runs scored and offer evidence that Ks are not really worse than other outs, and walking and slugging is a viable offensive strategy.

                  With that said, I think that this team is somewhat of a mirage. The low average and high K totals are very much due to two players, Rob Deer and Pete Incagivlia- two weaker versions of Dave Kingman.
                  Didn't that team also have Mickey Tettleton? Hitting like .241 with HRs and a BUNCH of Ks? And Cecil Fielder not exactly light on the Ks?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yep...that team had Tettleton and Fielder who combined for like 290 Ks and 180 BBs...LOL

                    Of course Rob Deer and Pete Inkaviglia soaking up 700 ABs worth of .180 hitting is gonna pull down a team's BA...but the rest of that team wasn't exactly lighting it up with the BA.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As far as I can tell the only other team to do it in the AL was the Yankees. In 1926, 1927, 1928, 1930, and 1938. Its possible that Boston in 1912 did it as well but they did not keep track of strikeouts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ironically enough...those Yankee teams were consistantly among the best offenses in the game's history. So...I'm thinking the sabermetric dream-offense isn't far from reality.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For the NL it has happened to:
                          1887 Chicago
                          1926 Cardinals
                          1930 Cubs
                          1976 Reds

                          with possibly the 1904 and 1907 Giants doint it as well.

                          In 1926 the Cardinals won the pennant, in 1930 the Cubs finished 2 games back, and in 1976 the Reds won the pennant.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            and 1887 CHI was a good offense...just a poor defense...common for 19th century teams (because of all the errors and weird parks and bad equipment and the offensively biased scoring environment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The 1887 team had a good defense and pitching the offense wasn't all that hot, and the strikeouts probably had something to do with it. This team led the leagues in homers and walks yets scored the 5th most runs in a league of 8. Meanwhile they allow the third fewest runs in the league. In that day and age with the field conditions and the equipment they should not have been striking out so much. They should have been putting the ball in play more often and gotten themselves more runners. On top of that they had the second most stolen bases in the league. So you got to figure that means that they probably have a really high caught stealing rate as well, which again removes runners from the basepaths. So while the Cubs hit almost double the amount of homers the average non-Chicago team hit they did not manage to capitalize on it with extra runs.

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X