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Should Phantom Players/Managers be listed in databases?

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  • Should Phantom Players/Managers be listed in databases?

    So I’m scrolling B-R’s all-time MLB manager register, and noticed Buck Showalter hasn’t been bolded yet. Granted he hasn’t managed an official game yet for the Mets, but he is very much under contract with them for the 2022 season.

    Also Met related is that according to official Met publications, he will be considered the 24th person to be named Mets skipper. Though only 22 of his predecessors will be found on any sort of statistical register.

    This of course means that the Mets officially recognize that Carlos Beltran would have replaced Mickey Callaway following the 2019 season. But due to his part in the Houston sign stealing scandal, he was dismissed before Spring Training had even started, and replaced with Luis Rojas (whom
    Showalter will be replacing).

    Naturally Beltran, whom would have made his MLB managerial debut as a Met is not listed on the B-R skipper resister. Both this, and Showalter’s name not being changed back to bold font yet is understandable with what sites like B-R do. But it has me wondering if there is interest in such a listing.

    And not just managerial/coaching hires that never made it to an official ball game. But with players called up, or placed on the active roster during a team’s season but never actually got into a proper game. Not sure how extensive research needed can be done on both, especially going back to days where even the major’s regular day-to-day transaction registers weren’t as kept up to date as they’d be as media outlets grew.

    But it would be quite an interesting undertaking.
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    Talking Mets Baseball. A baseball blog with a Mets bias

  • #2
    Originally posted by SteveJRogers View Post
    the Mets officially recognize that Carlos Beltran would have replaced Mickey Callaway following the 2019 season.
    Since the Mets did formally announce that Beltran would be the next manager...



    ...I believe he should be included in any list of men who held that title. That he never managed a game is irrelevant..

    As you correctly point out, the Mets do indeed recognize him as such. In the 2021 Mets Media Guide, Beltran is included in the list of Mets' managers, with a record of 0-0. (For some reason, however, they incorrectly have him listed as manager in 2019 as well as 2020.)



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    • #3
      Well, he was hired on November 1st of 2019

      https://sny.tv/articles/mets-hire-ca...ran-as-manager

      And was relieved of his duties on January 16th of 2020.

      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1116271

      True, point of order would say that future Hall of Famer Gil Hodges’ tenure as the Met skipper ended with his April 2nd, 1972 passing, before an official 1972 game could be played, and that is reflected in Hodges’ entry on that register being 1968-1971. Actually it should be noted that Hodges was in fact named the Met skipper in late November of 1967!

      https://www.newsday.com/amp/sports/b...ies-1.32728616

      So while its understandable registers are going to use the games managed years (68-71) as opposed to 11/27/67-4/2/72 I don’t know what year(s) you suggest registers use for Beltran’s unique situation.
      NY Sports Day Independent Gotham Sports Coverage
      Mets360 Mets Past, Present and Future
      Talking Mets Baseball. A baseball blog with a Mets bias

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Gary Dunaier View Post

        Since the Mets did formally announce that Beltran would be the next manager...



        ...I believe he should be included in any list of men who held that title. That he never managed a game is irrelevant..

        As you correctly point out, the Mets do indeed recognize him as such. In the 2021 Mets Media Guide, Beltran is included in the list of Mets' managers, with a record of 0-0. (For some reason, however, they incorrectly have him listed as manager in 2019 as well as 2020.)


        I disagree. Wholeheartedly. Beltran never managed a Met game. To list him as a one-time manager is inaccurate, to say the least.

        How many Mets yearbooks that never existed but were in the plans should I consider official releases?
        Put it in the books.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by milladrive View Post

          I disagree. Wholeheartedly. Beltran never managed a Met game. To list him as a one-time manager is inaccurate, to say the least.

          How many Mets yearbooks that never existed but were in the plans should I consider official releases?
          If the Mets want to list him as a manager, that's fine. It's technically correct, but as he never managed a Major League game, including him in such a list would be problematic, to say the least. I don't see any justification for opening that kind of can of worms.
          "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
          "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
          "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
          "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
            If the Mets want to list him as a manager, that's fine. It's technically correct, but as he never managed a Major League game, including him in such a list would be problematic, to say the least. I don't see any justification for opening that kind of can of worms.
            A good point. I wonder how many teams have had managers that never managed. ...and how many of them are on those organizations' managerial lists.

            I just think it makes zero sense to list a manager with zero games managed.
            Put it in the books.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
              If the Mets want to list him as a manager, that's fine. It's technically correct, but as he never managed a Major League game, including him in such a list would be problematic, to say the least. I don't see any justification for opening that kind of can of worms.
              How may worms are in that can to worry about? How many people in MLB history have been officilay hoed as manager only to not manage a single game?
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