#8 NL hitters drawing more walks

[Xeifrank]

Do number 8 hitters in the NL tend to draw a higher number of walks than they would get had they hit elsewhere in the lineup due to hitting in front of the pitcher's spot for most of the game? When i brought up the possibility of this I got laughed at. Perhaps it is one of those myths, but from watching games it seems like the #8 hitter often gets pitched around, especially in a 2 out jam to get to the pitcher. Thoughts?
vr, Xei

[stevebogus]

In most seasons (something like 80% of the time) the #8 hitters will get the most IBB of any lineup slot, drawing more IBB than even the #3 or #4 hitters. By batting in front of the pitcher a player will draw about 10 or 12 IBB for each 162 games.

[Wade8813]

It's kind of a mixed bag. Making their pitcher bat is definitely an advantage, but you usually don't need to be very afraid of an opposing team's #8. They're usually middle infielders who can't hit.

Personally, I can see giving them almost nothing to hit, but I'd almost never give them an intentional walk.

[Xeifrank]

Bb

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I am referring to non-Intentional Walks. I've seen a couple of players get called up from the minors and batted in the number 8 spot and have their walk rates increase. Same question(s) as in the original post but take intentional walks out of the equation.
vr, Xei

[stevebogus]

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I am referring to non-Intentional Walks. I've seen a couple of players get called up from the minors and batted in the number 8 spot and have their walk rates increase. Same question(s) as in the original post but take intentional walks out of the equation.
vr, Xei

This is probably very hard to prove one way or the other. You need to establish what a player's walk rate is in the 8 slot compared to all other lineup positions. The problem is guys who bat 8th are poor hitters in the first place (or they wouldn't be batting 8th), and so they tend to have short careers. A Gold-Glove caliber shortstop (Belanger, Maxvill) will occasionally have a long career, but spend 80-90% of their time batting 8th. They will have so few plate appearances in other lineup slots that any walk rate derived from that data still suffers from sample size issues and might not be a true indicator of a player's real strike zone judgement.

My hunch is that #8 hitters do get pitched around, but also swing at more bad pitches. With runners on base the thinking may be "the pitcher cannot hit so I'm going up there hacking at anything I can reach". There is no obvious increase in non-intentional walks.

[digglahhh]

It's often done with two outs and a man on, the irony of the whole practice is that the best way to neuter an inning is to have a pitcher lead off. When you consider 2/3 of the time the #8 will fail to avoid making an out and you basically start the next inning with one out, it's to the pitcher's advantage to face the #8 hitter in the vast majority of situations.

To answer to question: Anecdotally, I'd bet that when IBBs are taken out of the equation, any increase in walk rate is marginal.

[misterdirt]

Digglahhh is right. From Retrosheet 2005-2007 data, No. 8 batter walk rate in the American league is .0670 (intentional walks removed). No. 8 batter in the National league .0662. Virtually identical with or without pitcher following.