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What are Ruth's and Gehrig's lifetime BA and OBP with RISP?

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  • What are Ruth's and Gehrig's lifetime BA and OBP with RISP?

    I'd like to know Babe Ruth's and Lou Gehrig's lifetime BA and OBP with runners in scoring postion, and don't know how to find these stats. Lou Gehrig was a a bit better at producing RBI's (season average is an amazing 149 per year, vs. and almost equally amazing 143), but the argument is that "he had Ruth hitting in front of him, so of course he had more RBI's." So, this might answer some questions as to who was more clutch.

    On a side note (didn't want to start a new topic) how many times was Ruth intentially walked when Gehrig was his teammate? It's kind of like avoiding death by fire by drowning yourself.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  • #2
    Whoops, I forgot splits don't go back that far at B-R.

    I'd be willing to bet Ruth's close to .340/.470/.690 and Gehrig is pretty close to .340/.450/.630
    Last edited by philkid3; 08-06-2008, 02:26 PM.
    Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by White Knight View Post
      I'd like to know Babe Ruth's and Lou Gehrig's lifetime BA and OBP with runners in scoring postion, and don't know how to find these stats. Lou Gehrig was a a bit better at producing RBI's (season average is an amazing 149 per year, vs. and almost equally amazing 143), but the argument is that "he had Ruth hitting in front of him, so of course he had more RBI's." So, this might answer some questions as to who was more clutch.
      I don't think we'll ever know.

      The best you can do is to study the players themselves. Ruth, for instance was brilliant under pressure. The examples are endless. Having a guy getting on base at nearly a coin-flip percentage, couldn't have hurt, but I think Lou was gonna get his no matter what.

      On a side note (didn't want to start a new topic) how many times was Ruth intentially walked when Gehrig was his teammate? It's kind of like avoiding death by fire by drowning yourself.
      It is my understanding that the intentional and unintentional intentional walks did cut down once Lou established himself as a threat and batted behind Ruth. Still though, Ruth, even in his later years, was widely considered the man not to let beat you in the Yankee lineup. In the eight years from '26-'33, Ruth led in walks 7 times. Of course he didn't get his typical 50-70 intentional walks a year like in years past, but they still came I would imagine, just more situationally fitting than before (IBB with the bases loaded in a 1-0 win for instance).

      An often overlooked factor that helped Lou, is that Ruth took all the media attention/questions/pressure off of him. Lou was most comfortable just going out and performing. Even once Babe left, DiMaggio immediately stepped in as a media darling who continued to take pressure off Lou and let him go about his business.
      Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 08-06-2008, 05:01 PM.
      "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

      ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
        An often overlooked factor that helped Lou, is that Ruth took all the media attention/questions/pressure off of him. Lou was most comfortable just going out and performing. Even once Babe left, DiMaggio immediately stepped in as a media darling who continued to take pressure off Lou and let him go about his business.
        This is an interesting point. Gehrig was well known for his shyness. We have so much film of Ruth hamming it up with kids, common folks, and famous people. I don't think I've ever seen any film of Gehrig doing anything like that. Shoot, I have never even seen a filmed interview of Gehrig. Does any such film exist?
        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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        • #5
          Originally posted by White Knight View Post
          I'd like to know Babe Ruth's and Lou Gehrig's lifetime BA and OBP with runners in scoring postion, and don't know how to find these stats. Lou Gehrig was a a bit better at producing RBI's (season average is an amazing 149 per year, vs. and almost equally amazing 143), but the argument is that "he had Ruth hitting in front of him, so of course he had more RBI's." So, this might answer some questions as to who was more clutch.

          On a side note (didn't want to start a new topic) how many times was Ruth intentially walked when Gehrig was his teammate? It's kind of like avoiding death by fire by drowning yourself.
          Don't think we will ever know with certainty
          Early on with the Red Sox in 1918 he came to bat with a man on second and was given an IBB, they came in his last 3 at bats in that game. In his next game he was given an IBB in his first two at bats. Over the course of those two games, 5 consecutive IBB.

          1923 against the St. Louis Browns in the 11th inning about to be put on he turned around batting right handed and they put him on. Later in that game the 13th inning about to be walked again he bats right handed and is walked again. Yanks won that game.
          Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 08-07-2008, 11:08 AM.

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          • #6
            Just use their careers numbers. Those are probably the sames as their RiSP numbers.
            Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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            • #7
              I think we will know with pretty close to certainty what their numbers were. Both Gehrig and Ruth played at a time when the newspaper was king and PBP was in the papers. I believe already Retrosheet has complete PBP data for all New York teams for at least the mid to late 20's and some into the 30's.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                This is an interesting point. Gehrig was well known for his shyness. We have so much film of Ruth hamming it up with kids, common folks, and famous people. I don't think I've ever seen any film of Gehrig doing anything like that. Shoot, I have never even seen a filmed interview of Gehrig. Does any such film exist?
                I don't want to take anything away from Gehrig, but it is definitely worth noting. Like many other things, when comparing era to era, you must understand fully what Babe dealt with day in and day out. He was constantly doing this and doing that, answering to a couple dozen media reporters every game, going to personal appearances, goodwill and charity events, dinners, promotions, stunts, you name it. Gehrig was lucky to have a teammate like Ruth, who shielded him from damn near all of the limelight/attention. The downside for Gehrig, is that his accomplishments didn't get the notoriety they might have otherwise, and the counterpoint to that, is that maybe he wouldn't have had the same accomplishments, had he faced what Ruth did.
                Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 08-07-2008, 07:28 PM.
                "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

                ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

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                • #9
                  To answer the original poster's question...

                  Using tOPS+ (him measured against himself in all situations, 100 being average): Ruth's tOPS+ was 99 with RISP.

                  Gehrig's was 102.

                  Nothing extraordinary here.

                  These guys had 500-600 runners on base in front of them every year. Hence averaging 150 RBI per annum.

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                  • #10
                    They have 2568 plate appearances for Gehrig with RISP. His slash is .336/.453/.636. Without RISP they have 3683 PA and he is .332/.433/.623.

                    On Babe they only have 1526 PA with RISP. He went .347/.479/.677. Without RISP they have 2359 PA and he is .336/.453/.696.
                    .


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                    • #11
                      According to Retrosheet:

                      Babe Ruth - w/RISP 2205 Plate Appearances - .351/.513/.709. He was intentionally walked 127 times w/RISP and 532 total walks w/RISP.

                      Lou Gehrig - w/RISP 2646 Plate Appearances - .336/.464/.633. He was intentionally walked 104 times w/RISP and 487 total walks w/RISP.

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