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  • The Baseball Page's Stats

    I have known for a long time about the website The Baseball Page, but it wasn't until recently that I really looked at their statistical pages. I must say, the variety of stats (and indexed to league average!) they have is UNBELIEVEABLE! They may be my new place to look at player stats instead of BBRef. Just look at the page for Jimmy Wynn:

    http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/stats/wynnji01

    I have wanted to know for some time what Jimmy Wynn's relative secondary average is, and now I know! 154! Relative RC, relative total average, relative isolated power splits by era and team, so many different categories, and gives you much better ways to compare players than does BBRef. I must give my hats off to the people over there, they've done a great job!

  • #2
    That site is pretty awesome. One thing. I am looking at Pedro's page and I can't put my finger on what CP is. His total CP is 13.1, league is 5.7, relative is 231.
    Last edited by BoSox Rule; 03-19-2006, 11:31 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by BoSox Rule
      That site is pretty awesome. One thing. I am looking at Pedro's page and I can't put my finger on what CP is. His total CP is 13.1, league is 5.7, relative is 231.
      Completion percentages. The percentage of his starts that he completed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BoSox Rule
        That site is pretty awesome. One thing. I am looking at Pedro's page and I can't put my finger on what CP is. His total CP is 13.1, league is 5.7, relative is 231.
        So much for his lack of stamina?
        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RuthMayBond
          So much for his lack of stamina?
          Here is Pedro in comparision...

          Relative CP
          Pedro: 231
          Clemens: 198
          Young: 115
          W Johnson: 142
          Seaver: 177

          Gooden 1985: 332
          Pedro 2000: 511

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BoSox Rule
            Here is Pedro in comparision...

            Relative CP
            Pedro: 231
            Clemens: 198
            Young: 115
            W Johnson: 142
            Seaver: 177

            Gooden 1985: 332
            Pedro 2000: 511

            Yeah I clearly see where you are going with this. I made a similar post in the Pedro VS Gooden thread.

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            • #7
              I voted for Pedro in that poll, but relative CP isn't the same as say, relative SLG or something.

              Innings pitched are fixed, they are the only thing guaranteed (obviously, minus extra innings) in the game. Normally, you can take a guy in a low offense environment and argue his SLG was more valuable than a guy with a higher SLG in a more hitter friendly era.

              But that's apples and oranges to CGs. In any given era, season or game the amount of runs a team may need to score will fluctuate. But no matter what the case a team still has to hold a team down for nine innings. When Pedro leaves the game inferior pitchers have to come in and protect that lead. So it doesn't matter, in that sense, whether he has better relative stamina, he is still handing the ball over to subpar relievers more often that Doc did. Its that simple, innings never change.

              Leo Mazzone says the game is a race to 27 outs, the first team to get the other team to make 27 outs wins. 27 outs in the only constant in the game, the only thing that is not relative to an era. That's why Mazzone considers defense to be the true offense and offense to be the defense.

              When comparing Pedro to the league and Doc to the league this argument can be made for Pedro. But when comparing them directly Doc was just on the hill more than Pedro was, its that simple.

              Doc vs. Pedro is an argument over whether Pedro's extra quality is enough to make up for Doc's workload advantage. I began the debate thinking it was, but I'm no longer sure.
              THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

              In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BoSox Rule
                Here is Pedro in comparision...

                Relative CP
                Pedro: 231
                Clemens: 198
                Young: 115
                W Johnson: 142
                Seaver: 177

                Gooden 1985: 332
                Pedro 2000: 511
                It's a lot easier to be that much above the league average when the league average is so low. When the league average is low (4.7%), it makes it so if you have a +19.4 linear difference then you have a 411% percentage difference. When the league average is higher, like it was in 1985 (13.7) it is harder to post a high percentage difference.

                So, you're better off going with the linear difference with CG%. However, with something like OBP you're better off going with the percentage difference. Why? Because the difference in OBPs over time has been much lower. OBPs may change by like 5% over time, but CG% will change by like 200% (or even far more going back to deadball). So, in this case the linear difference is more accurate than the percentage difference.

                Our normal use of relative stats is blinding us. Don't let it. It's math, really. Knowing when the linear difference or the percentage difference will be more accurate.

                Here's a good example. Let's pretend we have Player A who hits 46 home runs in a season, and Player B who hit 14. Player A has hit 229% more home runs than Player B.

                Now we have Player C who hit 3 home runs. Player B, who hit 14, hit 367% more home runs than player C.

                So, Player B has a higher percentage difference from player C than Player A has from player B.

                Does that make the difference between 14 home runs and 3 home runs greater than the difference between 46 and 14? No, of course not. We need to go with the linear difference. The same is true in the case of historical complete game percentages.

                Going with the linear difference, Gooden is 32 above league while Pedro is 19.4
                Last edited by 538280; 03-19-2006, 05:29 PM.

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                • #9
                  Agree with 538280. In the deadball era, 3 home runs over the league leader was, what, 40% more than the leader? Doesn't mean it's more impressive than a 30% lead today.
                  "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 538280
                    The same is true in the case of historical complete game percentages.

                    Going with the linear difference, Gooden is 32 above league while Pedro is 19.4
                    Spot on. Excellent work, Chris.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by digglahhh
                      That's why Mazzone considers defense to be the true offense and offense to be the defense.
                      You sure Stengel didn't say this?
                      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good site...I like the look of it...the only problem I have is that there's no mention of park adjustment at all.

                        Comment

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