Why not errors?

[milladrive]

I've long wondered why wild pitches, balks, passed balls, and a couple of other miscues by pitchers and/or catchers are not considered errors in the rules.

All thoughts are welcome.

[Jackaroo Dave]

The rationale I've heard for a separate passed ball category is that a passed ball could occur on any pitch with runners on, but a non-passed ball does not count as a fielding chance. Most, not all, errors occur when the result of a cleanly played ball would be an assist or putout, so fielding percentage makes a kind of sense. So out of fairness to catchers, there's a separate category because they are in jeopardy on every pitch but get no credit, only blame.

The same would seem to apply to wild pitches and balks. But I have no authority for this. It's just what I heard somewhere and seems reasonable.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

I've long wondered why wild pitches, balks, passed balls, and a couple of other miscues by pitchers and/or catchers are not considered errors in the rules.

All thoughts are welcome.

They are not by definition causing a runner to reach base.

[Jackaroo Dave]

They are not by definition causing a runner to reach base.

No, but they do allow a runner an extra base by definition, and that is the defining criterion for most errors--any others besides dropped foul flies?

[milladrive]

The rationale I've heard for a separate passed ball category is that a passed ball could occur on any pitch with runners on, but a non-passed ball does not count as a fielding chance. Most, not all, errors occur when the result of a cleanly played ball would be an assist or putout, so fielding percentage makes a kind of sense. So out of fairness to catchers, there's a separate category because they are in jeopardy on every pitch but get no credit, only blame.

The same would seem to apply to wild pitches and balks. But I have no authority for this. It's just what I heard somewhere and seems reasonable.

That explanation does seem reasonable, considering all the extra chances pitchers and catchers would encounter if each pitch was considered a chance for either the pitcher or the catcher. It's still a bit puzzling to me, but the more I read what you've written, the clearer it seems to be. ....although a balk still seems to me to be an outright error on the pitcher.

They are not by definition causing a runner to reach base.

No, but they do allow a runner an extra base by definition, and that is the defining criterion for most errors--any others besides dropped foul flies?

Thank you, JD. That's essentially what my reply would've been. And you've raised an extra good point with dropped fouls that would've otherwise been clean outs.

Am I mistaken that a muffed third strike on which the batter reaches first is considered a error? And is it contingent on whether it was a wild pitch or a passed ball as to who receives the error?

(This is weird. I've been following baseball for over 40 years, yet these seem to be such elementary inquiries. I feel so ignorant, heh.)

[Jackaroo Dave]

That explanation does seem reasonable, considering all the extra chances pitchers and catchers would encounter if each pitch was considered a chance for either the pitcher or the catcher. It's still a bit puzzling to me, but the more I read what you've written, the clearer it seems to be.

(This is weird. I've been following baseball for over 40 years, yet these seem to be such elementary inquiries. I feel so ignorant, heh.)

Thank you, but as I say, I don't really know that I'm right, and reasonableness is not a reliable guide where rules are concerned. (That's why they're rules.) I stick my fingers in my ears whenever the announcers start to talk about why the pitcher balked.

[brett]

CAN a passed ball be ruled an error, or is it that a wild pitch is an error in some cases?

[ipitch]

I've long wondered why wild pitches, balks, passed balls, and a couple of other miscues by pitchers and/or catchers are not considered errors in the rules.

As the rulebook says,
(f) Because the pitcher and catcher handle the ball much more than other fielders, certain misplays on pitched balls are defined in Rule 10.15 as wild pitches and passed balls. No error shall be charged when a wild pitch or passed ball is scored.

[milladrive]

As the rulebook says,
(f) Because the pitcher and catcher handle the ball much more than other fielders, certain misplays on pitched balls are defined in Rule 10.15 as wild pitches and passed balls. No error shall be charged when a wild pitch or passed ball is scored.

Thank you, ipitch. What does it say about balks? My instinct tells me that a balk isn't ruled an error because, as was stated above, then every toss to first would have to be considered a chance, which it isn't (even though if the ball gets thrown away on a pickoff attempt and the runner moves up, it's considered an error on either the pitcher or the firstbaseman). I think it's that parenthetical passage that confuses me. Why is it considered a chance only if it's become an error?

Third-strike wild pitches/passed balls allowing the batter to reach first also seems to be one of those occasions when a non-chance becomes a chance due to a pitcher or catcher miscue, because an error usually results when the batter reaches first.

[Jackaroo Dave]

Despite my admitted ignorance about what constitutes a balk, I'll weigh in on why I think it's not an error. The rules seem to distinguish carefully between the pitcher as pitcher and pitcher as just another fielder.

So if a pitcher throws a ball into the stands while fielding a bunt or making a pickoff play, and a runner scores as a result, it's an unearned run. But if a pitcher balks, either in making a throw to first, or in some eccentricity in pitching motion, or getting blown off the mound like Stu Miller, and a run results, it's an earned run, because it came about as a pitcher's failing, not a fielder's. The same person, but a different player. That's a kind of bassackwards way of thinking about it, but I think it's fair, in a way.

[brett]

So how come if a catcher drops a foul pop-up and then the batter goes on to get a hit, he still gets credit for a hit? It seems that he reached on an error effectively.

[Jackaroo Dave]

So how come if a catcher drops a foul pop-up and then the batter goes on to get a hit, he still gets credit for a hit? It seems that he reached on an error effectively.

One of the attractions baseball had for me as a kid was its supposed mathematical perfection. The symmetry between pitching and batting, the way every offensive entry had a corresponding defensive one, and so forth. 90 feet being the perfect length for a basepath, etc. I would bet that's part of its appeal to many posters here. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite hold up all the time.

Kind of like Euclid: For centuries his geometry was thought to be a perfect deductive system, but it turned out not quite so. But like Euclid's Elements, the rules of baseball are about as close to pefection as we can hope to come in this world.

[brett]

So am I right that a passed ball on a third strike that lets a player get to first IS an error?

[milladrive]

So am I right that a passed ball on a third strike that lets a player get to first IS an error?

I would think so, but I could be mistaken. I would think a third strike passed ball that allows the batter to get to first is an E2, and a wild pitch third strike would be an E1. Then again, as has been said, wild pitches and passed balls that allow runners to move from first to second, second to third, and/or third to home are not considered errors, so I'm still not sure.

[ipitch]

So am I right that a passed ball on a third strike that lets a player get to first IS an error?

No.

1) No error shall be charged when the batter is awarded first base on four called balls or because he was touched by a pitched ball, or when he reaches first base as the result of a wild pitch or passed ball. (i) When the third strike is a wild pitch, permitting the batter to reach first base, score a strikeout and a wild pitch. (ii) When the third strike is a passed ball, permitting the batter to reach first base, score a strikeout and a passed ball.