Most WAR in official rookie season, Most WAR in final season

[brett]

I was comtemplating doing a quiz, but don't know the answers, and figured that people could look up candidates WAR totals and I'll add them to a running list-so feel free to search for players you think might qualify, but don't use any auto-generated list please.

I'd like to try to find the top 25 official rookies in WAR. They should qualify by the rules of the time or today's standard which I think is <130 at bats or 50 innings pitched with maybe some other standard.

And a list of the top 25 or more guys in WAR in the final season in which they appeared in any games.

So all I need from you is a player, year and WAR total and I'll compile the list, but this way people can be involved in creating the list.

Rookies WAR
Russ Ford 1920: 9.5
Dick Allen 1964: 9.1
Joe Jackson 1911: 9.0
Mark Fidrych 1976: 8.5
Harvey Haddix 1953: 8.0
Ichiro Suzuki 2001: 7.6
Pete Alexander 1911: 7.3
Christy Mathewson 1901: 7.3
Fred Lynn 1975: 7.1
Carlton Fisk 1972: 7.1
Mike Piazza 1993: 7.0
Ted Williams 1939: 6.8
Jerry Koosman 1968: 6.3
Frank Robinson 1956: 6.2
Albert Pujols 2001: 6.1
Thurman Munson 1970: 5.9
Tony Oliva 1964: 5.9
Nomar Garciaparra 1997: 5.9
Stan Musial 1942: 5.8
Fernando Valenzuela 1981: 5.8
Paul Waner 1926: 5.7
Troy Tulowitzki 2007: 5.6
Herb Score 1955: 5.5
Dwight Gooden 1984: 5.4
Mark McGwire 1987: 5.4
Johnny Mize 1936: 4.9
Joe Dimaggio 1936: 4.8
Jhnny Bench 1968: 4.7
Cal Ripken Jr. 1983: 4.5


1876 rookies
Jim Devlin: 12.4
Al Spalding: 12.2
Grin Bradley: 9.9
Tommy Bond: 8.9
Ross Barnes: 6.8





Final season WAR
Sandy Koufax 1966: 9.9
Joe Jackson 1920: 7.4
Cicotte 1920: 4.7
Jackie Robinson 1956: 4.6
Mike Mussina 2008: 4.4
Roberto Clemente 1972: 4.4
Will Clark 2000: 4.1
Bill Lange 1899: 4.1
Mickey Mantle 1968: 3.6
Barry Bonds 2007: 3.3
Ted Williams 1960: 2.9
Kirby Puckett 1995: 2.5

[brett]

I am sorry, I meant to put this in trivia. Mod's decision.

[Nimrod]

I was comtemplating doing a quiz, but don't know the answers, and figured that people could look up candidates WAR totals and I'll add them to a running list-so feel free to search for players you think might qualify, but don't use any auto-generated list please.

I'd like to try to find the top 25 official rookies in WAR. They should qualify by the rules of the time or today's standard which I think is <130 at bats or 50 innings pitched with maybe some other standard.

And a list of the top 25 or more guys in WAR in the final season in which they appeared in any games.

So all I need from you is a player, year and WAR total and I'll compile the list, but this way people can be involved in creating the list.

Rookies WAR




Final season WAR

Pete Alexander had a 7.8 War as a pitcher his rookie season.Sandy Koufax had a 10.8 in his final season pitching.

[brett]

If Joe Jackson`s official rookie season was 1911(by TODAY`S rule it would be),then he might very well have the distinction of having BOTH the greatest rookie season(for a position player)AND the greatest final season ever!

I'll include it unless someone can show that there was a different rule at the time.

[brett]

I will add Dwight Gooden '84 with 5.4, Cal Ripken Jr. '83 with 4.5 to the rookies list.
Ted Williams: 1939: 6.8
Frank Robinson: 1956: 6.2

[Nimrod]

Tony Oliva posted a 5.9 in his rookie season.

[BigRon]

Some excellent rookie seasons:

Richie (Dick) Allen 1964: 9.1
Fred Lynn 1975: 7.1
Grover Cleveland Alexander 1911: 7.8 PWAR
Paul Waner 1926: 5.7

[brett]

I'll add McGwire: '87 and Dimaggio '36 Valenzuela '81, Pujols '01

[bluesky5]

Rookies
Ichiro, 7.6 in '01. MVP too.
Pujols, 6.9 in '01.

[Nimrod]

As far as I can tell,Sandy Koufax has the largest WAR for a pitcher in final season at 10.8.(Oddly,sometimes the Baseball Reference and the Baseball Gauge do not have the exact same WAR stats for some players).

[brett]

As far as I can tell,Sandy Koufax has the largest WAR for a pitcher in final season at 10.8.(Oddly,sometimes the Baseball Reference and the Baseball Gauge do not have the exact same WAR stats for some players).

Baseball gauge does some radical stuff. Some career totals are a lot different and it seems to hurt modern guys more so maybe it's their replacement level. Or they might use a different defensive metric. I am using total war so I will go with 9.9 for Koufax.

[Bothrops Atrox]

As far as I can tell,Sandy Koufax has the largest WAR for a pitcher in final season at 10.8.(Oddly,sometimes the Baseball Reference and the Baseball Gauge do not have the exact same WAR stats for some players).

There are many variations of WAR - not really odd at all that they produce different results.

[Bothrops Atrox]

Baseball gauge does some radical stuff. Some career totals are a lot different and it seems to hurt modern guys more so maybe it's their replacement level. Or they might use a different defensive metric. I am using total war so I will go with 9.9 for Koufax.

brett - BG has just released a new version of WAR which uses Michaael Humphrey's DRA as the defensive system (instead of TZ, of course). They also have included a LQ timeline adjustments, so modern players come out much better. Finally, the new version does not just divide up team-defense WAR to its pitchers for defensive support based on the # of balls in play. It considers GB/FB rates, handedness, and a few other factors to more accurately depict how each defense interacted with individual pitchers. Also includes a bullpen support adjustment for pitchers. The guys who seem hurt most in the new version are the 70's guys with a disproportionate amount of their WAR coming from replacement value compared to run prevention (Sutton, Carlton, Ryan, Perry, Niekro, etc). Could be a different replacement level going on.

I like the new version a lot, with some reservations, of course. The old version was based on FIP or SIERA or another pure DIPS metric, which explains why there was so much discrepancy.

[Joltin' Joe]

Nomo 4.9 WAR 1995

[brett]

brett - BG has just released a new version of WAR which uses Michaael Humphrey's DRA as the defensive system (instead of TZ, of course). They also have included a LQ timeline adjustments, so modern players come out much better. Finally, the new version does not just divide up team-defense WAR to its pitchers for defensive support based on the # of balls in play. It considers GB/FB rates, handedness, and a few other factors to more accurately depict how each defense interacted with individual pitchers. Also includes a bullpen support adjustment for pitchers. The guys who seem hurt most in the new version are the 70's guys with a disproportionate amount of their WAR coming from replacement value compared to run prevention (Sutton, Carlton, Ryan, Perry, Niekro, etc). Could be a different replacement level going on.

I like the new version a lot, with some reservations, of course. The old version was based on FIP or SIERA or another pure DIPS metric, which explains why their was so much discrepancy.

Is there a link to a leaderboard list?

I noticed that Boggs and Ripken both lost significant WAR despite being more modern guys, but I always felt they were both overrated a little in total-zone defense.