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Josh Hamilton BABIP

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    Yes, simply don't subtract HR from BABIP.
    A way to get a sorted list of players automatically? Has anyone compiled this as an available stat?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
      Well, if you take just a little power away from virtually any player in the game and you'll see their batting average drop dramatically. Groundball hitters, line drive hitters, flyball hitters, it doesn't matter if the ball is hit just a little bit less than they normally hit it they are not going to be getting their hits.


      What's odd for me is the idea that from a fielder's perspective, a ball put in play by Tony Gwynn is going to be on average a harder play to make than a ball put in play by Barry Bonds. I figured most of a contact hitter's advantage was in having low strikeouts, but hit trajectories have to play a major role-contact hitters must maximize line drive rates. Of course we are taking Bonds' best struck balls out of the equation.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by brett View Post
        I was going to mention something else about home run hitters declining. I hadn't realized how much of their BA was due to home runs. When Albert Pujols is not hitting home runs he's a career .275 hitter. And if his home runs turn into deep fly outs he's a .256 hitter so if a power hitter loses his home run power the average goes too. Barry Bonds hit .239 excluding his home runs.
        Pujols' career BABIP (which exclude homeruns) is .309. Not sure where you are getting .275.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
          Pujols' career BABIP (which exclude homeruns) is .309. Not sure where you are getting .275.
          Brett is not talking about BABIP. He's talking about batting average when not hitting a HR. There's a difference.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ipitch View Post
            Brett is not talking about BABIP. He's talking about batting average when not hitting a HR. There's a difference.
            I see that now, I didn't read carefully. Obviously I know that they aren't the same thing.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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            • #51
              Originally posted by brett View Post
              I was going to mention something else about home run hitters declining. I hadn't realized how much of their BA was due to home runs. When Albert Pujols is not hitting home runs he's a career .275 hitter. And if his home runs turn into deep fly outs he's a .256 hitter so if a power hitter loses his home run power the average goes too. Barry Bonds hit .239 excluding his home runs.
              power hitters usually have 20% or more of their hits being HRs. so of course if you lose those hits your BA will take a dent.

              however I think the calculation is not as easy. If we asume those HR hitters had less power not all of those a little shorter balls would have been outs (but a lot of them of course) some would hit the gap or wall for a hit.
              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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              • #52
                But some of their doubles and singles would get turned into outs as well.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by dominik View Post
                  power hitters usually have 20% or more of their hits being HRs. so of course if you lose those hits your BA will take a dent. However, I think the calculation is not as easy. If we asume those HR hitters had less power not all of those a little shorter balls would have been outs (but a lot of them of course) some would hit the gap or wall for a hit.
                  Again unless you're doing some refined analysis like brett's, it seems to me of dubious value at best and misleading at worst to focus on BABIP as a batter trait. From the batter's perspective, there's no reason to make a qualitative distinction between homers and other hits, still less strikeouts and other outs.

                  Why not have a category that excludes wall-ball and ground rule doubles and foul pop outs? I guarantee if fangraphs listed it, there would be discussions about who was a good batted-ball-minus-wall-ball-and-ground-rule-double-and-foul-out (BBMWBGRDFO) hitter.

                  I don't know why this gets me so worked up. I guess because--in some cases, not in this forum of course--it feels like pseudo-knowledge.

                  I think it's all part of the covert movement to rehabilitate batting average. ;-)
                  Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                    …I think it's all part of the covert movement to rehabilitate batting average. ;-)
                    Is there a cardiac resuscitator big enough for that one?
                    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

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