Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Josh Hamilton BABIP

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • scorekeeper
    replied
    Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
    …I think it's all part of the covert movement to rehabilitate batting average. ;-)
    Is there a cardiac resuscitator big enough for that one?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by dominik View Post
    power hitters usually have 20% or more of their hits being HRs. so of course if you lose those hits your BA will take a dent. However, I think the calculation is not as easy. If we asume those HR hitters had less power not all of those a little shorter balls would have been outs (but a lot of them of course) some would hit the gap or wall for a hit.
    Again unless you're doing some refined analysis like brett's, it seems to me of dubious value at best and misleading at worst to focus on BABIP as a batter trait. From the batter's perspective, there's no reason to make a qualitative distinction between homers and other hits, still less strikeouts and other outs.

    Why not have a category that excludes wall-ball and ground rule doubles and foul pop outs? I guarantee if fangraphs listed it, there would be discussions about who was a good batted-ball-minus-wall-ball-and-ground-rule-double-and-foul-out (BBMWBGRDFO) hitter.

    I don't know why this gets me so worked up. I guess because--in some cases, not in this forum of course--it feels like pseudo-knowledge.

    I think it's all part of the covert movement to rehabilitate batting average. ;-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubiquitous
    replied
    But some of their doubles and singles would get turned into outs as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • dominik
    replied
    Originally posted by brett View Post
    I was going to mention something else about home run hitters declining. I hadn't realized how much of their BA was due to home runs. When Albert Pujols is not hitting home runs he's a career .275 hitter. And if his home runs turn into deep fly outs he's a .256 hitter so if a power hitter loses his home run power the average goes too. Barry Bonds hit .239 excluding his home runs.
    power hitters usually have 20% or more of their hits being HRs. so of course if you lose those hits your BA will take a dent.

    however I think the calculation is not as easy. If we asume those HR hitters had less power not all of those a little shorter balls would have been outs (but a lot of them of course) some would hit the gap or wall for a hit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bothrops Atrox
    replied
    Originally posted by ipitch View Post
    Brett is not talking about BABIP. He's talking about batting average when not hitting a HR. There's a difference.
    I see that now, I didn't read carefully. Obviously I know that they aren't the same thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • ipitch
    replied
    Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
    Pujols' career BABIP (which exclude homeruns) is .309. Not sure where you are getting .275.
    Brett is not talking about BABIP. He's talking about batting average when not hitting a HR. There's a difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bothrops Atrox
    replied
    Originally posted by brett View Post
    I was going to mention something else about home run hitters declining. I hadn't realized how much of their BA was due to home runs. When Albert Pujols is not hitting home runs he's a career .275 hitter. And if his home runs turn into deep fly outs he's a .256 hitter so if a power hitter loses his home run power the average goes too. Barry Bonds hit .239 excluding his home runs.
    Pujols' career BABIP (which exclude homeruns) is .309. Not sure where you are getting .275.

    Leave a comment:


  • brett
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    Well, if you take just a little power away from virtually any player in the game and you'll see their batting average drop dramatically. Groundball hitters, line drive hitters, flyball hitters, it doesn't matter if the ball is hit just a little bit less than they normally hit it they are not going to be getting their hits.


    What's odd for me is the idea that from a fielder's perspective, a ball put in play by Tony Gwynn is going to be on average a harder play to make than a ball put in play by Barry Bonds. I figured most of a contact hitter's advantage was in having low strikeouts, but hit trajectories have to play a major role-contact hitters must maximize line drive rates. Of course we are taking Bonds' best struck balls out of the equation.

    Leave a comment:


  • brett
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    Yes, simply don't subtract HR from BABIP.
    A way to get a sorted list of players automatically? Has anyone compiled this as an available stat?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by brett View Post
    I was going to mention something else about home run hitters declining. I hadn't realized how much of their BA was due to home runs. When Albert Pujols is not hitting home runs he's a career .275 hitter.
    Forgive me . . . . That's another reason why I think abuse of BABIP is pernicious.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubiquitous
    replied
    Originally posted by brett View Post
    I was going to mention something else about home run hitters declining. I hadn't realized how much of their BA was due to home runs. When Albert Pujols is not hitting home runs he's a career .275 hitter. And if his home runs turn into deep fly outs he's a .256 hitter so if a power hitter loses his home run power the average goes too. Barry Bonds hit .239 excluding his home runs.
    Well, if you take just a little power away from virtually any player in the game and you'll see their batting average drop dramatically. Groundball hitters, line drive hitters, flyball hitters, it doesn't matter if the ball is hit just a little bit less than they normally hit it they are not going to be getting their hits.

    Leave a comment:


  • brett
    replied
    I was going to mention something else about home run hitters declining. I hadn't realized how much of their BA was due to home runs. When Albert Pujols is not hitting home runs he's a career .275 hitter. And if his home runs turn into deep fly outs he's a .256 hitter so if a power hitter loses his home run power the average goes too. Barry Bonds hit .239 excluding his home runs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubiquitous
    replied
    Probability dictates that there will be hitters that have more or less good or bad "luck" over a career. We probably should not expect as extreme of luck as we would in 100 at bats or 500 but it is still certainly possible and highly likely that there is still some "luck" present in every ballplayer's career line.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    What ever the case, the reason why there are ups and over in a career, a high BABIP shows the hitter making the most out of balls in play and over a career and thats good, luck plays a tiny part, a very tiny part, career.

    There is no logical reason for one hitter to have more or less good or bad luck than another, not over a career.
    No argument here.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    What ever the case, the reason why there are ups and over in a career, a high BABIP shows the hitter making the most out of balls in play and over a career and thats good, luck plays a tiny part, a very tiny part, career.

    There is no logical reason for one hitter to have more or less good or bad luck than another, not over a career.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 05-14-2012, 05:51 PM.

    Leave a comment:

Ad Widget

Collapse
Working...
X