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Tim Raines dWAR

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  • Tim Raines dWAR

    Does anyone know why BR has his dWAR so low? He was right at the lead for N.L. putouts and assists for left fielders almost every season he played.

  • #2
    His fielding as a left fielder are basically dead average and for such a long career that's actually kind of good-he was +24 runs through his first 1700 games or so.

    His dWAR is low because left field gets about a -7 run per 162 game positional adjustment (which is dead on with the extra average offensive value of a left fielder) and he also DHed 131 games and pinch hit only in around 200 (which I think also counts as DHing and DH's get about -14 runs per 162). All that means is that a DH would have to put up 14 runs above average on offense to be rated an average all around player.

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    • #3
      George H Ruth:

      I'll take a stab at Raines' fielding, looking only at my metric's view of him defensively with no positional penalties leveled against him by formula.
      I checked his ratings against my model of basic comparison for each season [1982 through 1995], after which time his play was essentially part-time.

      Short answer: I have him at about 56 DR above average MLB LF over his career, unadjusted for playing time.

      For a complete breakdown, by season, please refer to thread: Evolving MLB Defense [with introductory focus on 2B].

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      • #4
        As mentioned by Brett, it's so low because of the position adjustment. If you want to calculate fielding WAR WITHOUT position adjustment, just subtract offensive WAR from total WAR. Doing that, you'll see that he was slightly above average for his career.

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        • #5
          If you want to see what his fielding looks like without factoring in position just look at RField which puts him at -7 runs below average for his career.

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          • #6
            While we're on the subject, why does Dale Murphy do poorly in defensive metrics? Does anyone have any opinions on his fielding and arm? As flawed as Gold Gloves can be, it seems odd that he would be awarded five in a row yet have subpar defense.
            "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tyrus4189Cobb View Post
              While we're on the subject, why does Dale Murphy do poorly in defensive metrics? Does anyone have any opinions on his fielding and arm? As flawed as Gold Gloves can be, it seems odd that he would be awarded five in a row yet have subpar defense.
              murphy rates well as a right fielder in '87, '88 and '89. In centerfield he rates poorly in '84, '85 and '86 and racks up almost all of his negative defensive WAR. Consider that in '84-'86 he was -36 defensive runs primarily in CF, but he was plus in '80 and overall about even in '81-'83. I think that it is some kind of team dynamic that hurt him statistically in those 3 years. His range factor did drop in '84 and '85 and '86 in centerfield but it was HIGHER in '87 in right field than it had been in '86 in centerfield. I think that for some reason there were fewer centerfield opportunities for his team in those years, though he might have lost a little range as well.

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              • #8
                From 1984 to 1986 he was a full time CF'er while the rest of the time he either split time at other position or played other positions full time. It could very well be that since he played other positions a lot in most years that his flaws in center were hidden most of the time. He might very well have been an overmatched CF'er but a good RF'er or LF'er much like Barry wasn't or wouldn't have been a good defensive CF'er but was a great defensive LF'er.

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                • #9
                  Win shares defense has Raines as a B Minus

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SavoyBG View Post
                    Win shares defense has Raines as a B Minus
                    Is there a (free) database that provides these ratings? Or must I buy a book?
                    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tyrus4189Cobb View Post
                      Is there a (free) database that provides these ratings? Or must I buy a book?
                      I don't think they are available anywhere other than the book

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                      • #12
                        Is the book any good? Sorry to radically divert the focus.
                        "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

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