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Highest home or away tOPS+

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  • Highest home or away tOPS+

    Is there any easy way to find the players with the highest home or away tOPS+?

    The following are just lists of the the highest ones that I've found so far.

    HOME
    Larry Walker - 120
    Todd Helton - 119
    Wade Boggs - 118
    Ron Santo - 118
    Jim Rice - 115
    Ryne Sandberg - 114

    AWAY
    Mike Piazza - 108
    Joe DiMaggio - 107
    Eddie Mathews - 106

  • #2
    How about the biggest home park fraud of alltime, Chuck Klein?

    A comical 122/77 split.

    Comment


    • #3
      maybe ... ?

      home - look for guys who spent most of their career at Wrigley - Fenway - Baker Bowl

      away - look for guys who spent most of their career at Griffith Stadium - Forbes Field - Braves Field

      Comment


      • #4
        Chuck Klein's 1933 Triple Crown is the most fraudulent, shameful, and unfortunate one ever. Would you believe a 153/52 split?!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
          Chuck Klein's 1933 Triple Crown is the most fraudulent, shameful, and unfortunate one ever. Would you believe a 153/52 split?!
          But it was still a hell of a season, .480 WOBA, 7.3 fangraphs WAR. I don't understand the outrage. He did what he did.

          If a player learns how to take advantage of his home park, it helps his team, doesn't it? There's no such thing as a cheap home run. They all add up the same on the scoreboard.

          Not to diss your avatar, Joe; I think he's one of the most remarkable hitters ever, but what good did all those 400' line outs to left do the Yankees, really?
          Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 10-29-2012, 06:03 PM.
          Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
            How about the biggest home park fraud of alltime, Chuck Klein?

            A comical 122/77 split.
            Yikes! Good one.

            FWIW, I noticed that his 1932 Phillies team had an amazing 127/72 split.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
              But it was still a hell of a season, .480 WOBA, 7.3 fangraphs WAR. I don't understand the outrage. He did what he did.

              If a player learns how to take advantage of his home park, it helps his team, doesn't it? There's no such thing as a cheap home run. They all add up the same on the scoreboard.

              Not to diss your avatar, Joe; I think he's one of the most remarkable hitters ever, but what good did all those 400' line outs to left do the Yankees, really?
              I agree on the Clipper, he should have changed his approach.

              I'm sorry I will have to respectably disagree with you on Klein. One thing to take advantage of a home park but Baker Bowl was beyond ridiculous for a LHB. All he had to do was hit lazy fly into the outfield and it either went over the fence or bounced off of it for a double or a base hit. Makes the Green Monster look like the Grand Canyon. It's a good thing for the history of the sport we love that no great LHB ever played there. Had that been the case, all credibility would have been shot as they would have put up slow pitch softball numbers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, I can see the aesthetic argument, I guess, an outsize anomaly that's almost grotesque.
                Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                Comment


                • #9
                  Does anyone have an explanation or theory as to why Piazza hit so much better on the road for his career? I know that he played in pitcher's parks, but so did everyone else who played for those teams, and their splits are not so extreme. This has always interested me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                    But it was still a hell of a season, .480 WOBA, 7.3 fangraphs WAR. I don't understand the outrage. He did what he did.

                    If a player learns how to take advantage of his home park, it helps his team, doesn't it? There's no such thing as a cheap home run. They all add up the same on the scoreboard.

                    Not to diss your avatar, Joe; I think he's one of the most remarkable hitters ever, but what good did all those 400' line outs to left do the Yankees, really?
                    This could start a whole new debate but for sure we will never know if Joe would have been of more value to his team by hitting to the opposite field more often.

                    He probably dropped a good number of singles in front of left fielders field because opposing teams played him deep in left field.

                    Thats not going to happen as often in RF because the rf could not play as deep, 296 down the line.
                    Thinking about the short porch in RF, if you don't hit it out right down the line the right side at Yankee Stadium then goes to 344 in short RCF and then 429 in deep RCF.

                    The only RH hitter to bat .325 in the last 75 years. Only one other RH hittter hit better than .320 career in the last 75 years, Pujols I believe at about .325

                    One other stat, career RBI per game, Joe number 4 all time.
                    I guess you could counter and say he might have done better hitting the other way, we will never know, he did very good hitting as he did.

                    Not going to take the slugging away from one of my weapons by asking him to hit the other way.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ipitch View Post
                      Is there any easy way to find the players with the highest home or away tOPS+?

                      The following are just lists of the the highest ones that I've found so far.

                      HOME
                      Larry Walker - 120
                      Todd Helton - 119
                      Wade Boggs - 118
                      Ron Santo - 118
                      Jim Rice - 115
                      Ryne Sandberg - 114

                      AWAY
                      Mike Piazza - 108
                      Joe DiMaggio - 107
                      Eddie Mathews - 106
                      Be mindful that T-ops+ for home and away do NOT adjust for park factors. They simply show a players home OPS+ calculated against the player's overall rate. Larry Walker and Todd Helton for instance had park adjusted home OPS+'s that were dead even with their overall OPS+.

                      sOPS+ also does not adjust for park. It rates a player at home versus all players in their own home parks.

                      In '33, Klein's park adjusted Home OPS+ was 235 and his Adjusted road OPS+ was 123
                      Last edited by brett; 10-31-2012, 07:05 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                        This could start a whole new debate but for sure we will never know if Joe would have been of more value to his team by hitting to the opposite field more often.
                        He probably dropped a good number of singles in front of left fielders field because opposing teams played him deep in left field. Thats not going to happen as often in RF because the rf could not play as deep, 296 down the line.
                        Thinking about the short porch in RF, if you don't hit it out right down the line the right side at Yankee Stadium then goes to 344 in short RCF and then 429 in deep RCF.
                        The only RH hitter to bat .325 in the last 75 years. Only one other RH hittter hit better than .320 career in the last 75 years, Pujols I believe at about .325 One other stat, career RBI per game, Joe number 4 all time.
                        I guess you could counter and say he might have done better hitting the other way, we will never know, he did very good hitting as he did.
                        Not going to take the slugging away from one of my weapons by asking him to hit the other way.
                        To be clear, I just observed rhetorically that Joe's line outs 400' to left didn't do his team as much good as Klein's pop flies off and over the Baker Bowl wall. I'm certainly not going to tell Joe Di F Maggio how to hit. Your post is really directed at Joltin Joe, who as a dedicated fan has the right to.
                        Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                          To be clear, I just observed rhetorically that Joe's line outs 400' to left didn't do his team as much good as Klein's pop flies off and over the Baker Bowl wall. I'm certainly not going to tell Joe Di F Maggio how to hit. Your post is really directed at Joltin Joe, who as a dedicated fan has the right to.
                          Got that but it was only 281 to RF for the lefty hitting Klein and the park configration shows it got deeper slowly away from the line. If I recall there was maybe 50 or 60 foot fence in RF. Not a good comparison, a lefty pullng the ball to RF, not much challenge, not as much as a RH hitter hitting to RF.

                          I doubt that fence hurt very much, not at 281 feet.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                            Got that but it was only 281 to RF for the lefty hitting Klein and the park configration shows it got deeper slowly away from the line. If I recall there was maybe 50 or 60 foot fence in RF. Not a good comparison, a lefty pullng the ball to RF, not much challenge, not as much as a RH hitter hitting to RF.

                            I doubt that fence hurt very much, not at 281 feet.
                            No doubt you are right, but challenge and difficulty were not my concerns, just ones and zeros.
                            Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                              No doubt you are right, but challenge and difficulty were not my concerns, just ones and zeros.
                              OK, now I got it.

                              Comment

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