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  • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
    Awesome Brett.

    I like how you're thinking outside the box.

    The first way makes sense, except the subtracting 1 and all that, but it's probably a stat thing over my head.

    For the SLGeff....I would really like to keep it to what the player and league did. Not sure about extrapolating that out to a whole season worth of outs for the one player. I do like the idea of getting a TB type figure but wouldn't we divide that by their actual AB to get something else? Or are we then back and square one.

    Man, how does this stuff not give you a headache.

    I'm through 1940 for AL and NL on the new SLGeff chart, since I have to re-do it. Only Ruth done so far...his Adjusted relative is 2.04. Very close to his actual OPS+
    Oh there it is. Adjusted relative slugging efficiency is similar to OPS+.

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    • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
      The numbers. I certainly noticed the tinted pictures though. They make the cluttered effect you get with all the numbers on a spreadsheet dissipate completely. A very nice touch. :applaud:



      Not sure if you were joking or not but I was shocked he beat him so handily too.

      Interesting that in Musial's career he hit more HR: +29 and doubles: +61 at home than on the road but in his five best seasons he was way better on the road [except '51]. Can someone help me out here: did they change the dimensions at Sportsman's Park during Musial's tenure?
      I wasn't joking, well the reference to Modern English was an attempt at one but I see it had an audience of none.

      Back to the main point. This is some very interesting data. keep up the good work.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
        Go easy Herr. I was kinda surprised too, even knowing Stans abilities. It was a whooping.
        You are always defending these new guys against my old favorites.

        HAHAHAHA!!! See how easy that happens?
        "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

        Comment


        • Originally posted by brett View Post
          For the first one, you take relative slugging plus relative OB minus 1. Then multiply the answer by your league OPS+ for the player's career. (and then multiply by 100 to make it an OPS+ type score)

          It would be "road predicted OPS+" or just predicted OPS+

          So a 1.63 relative slugging 1.16 relative OB%, you get 2.78. Subtract 1 to get 1.78. Multiply by the league OPS+ say .941 to get 1.67498. Then multiply 100 to get 167 (here you should round off to three digits.
          So for Ruth, we have 3.22 minus one, so 2.22 times .94 x 100 = 208.68

          Would that be 209 or 208?

          Also, it seems that looking at a players league avg for their careers in raw OPS, would tell us much more about their hitting environment than OPS+. We would get more fluctuation because as you know, it's pretty much gonna be 94 or 95 for every player (except 1973-current AL).

          If there's something we can do with that, can we look at the "more stats" OPS number, or is another data base required?

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          • JoeDbest10.jpg



            SimmonSheffieldBest5.jpg
            ----------------------------------------------
            Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 05-26-2014, 04:52 PM.

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            • For those curious about Mr. Boggs............

              BoggsBest10.jpg

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                So for Ruth, we have 3.22 minus one, so 2.22 times .94 x 100 = 208.68

                Would that be 209 or 208?

                Also, it seems that looking at a players league avg for their careers in raw OPS, would tell us much more about their hitting environment than OPS+. We would get more fluctuation because as you know, it's pretty much gonna be 94 or 95 for every player (except 1973-current AL).

                If there's something we can do with that, can we look at the "more stats" OPS number, or is another data base required?
                You would need to get raw yearly OPS averages. The "more stats" OPS numbers are park adjusted, just like the slugging & OBP numbers.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                  So for Ruth, we have 3.22 minus one, so 2.22 times .94 x 100 = 208.68

                  Would that be 209 or 208?

                  Also, it seems that looking at a players league avg for their careers in raw OPS, would tell us much more about their hitting environment than OPS+. We would get more fluctuation because as you know, it's pretty much gonna be 94 or 95 for every player (except 1973-current AL).

                  If there's something we can do with that, can we look at the "more stats" OPS number, or is another data base required?
                  209.

                  No the only reason to use the 94 or 95 is to take pitchers out of the league. OPS+ for a player is compared to non-pitchers, but the league OPS+ includes pitchers which is why it is a little less than 100. We just want to multiply by the .93 or .94 to remove the pitcher's defecit from the league an bring it back to 100. OPS+ for non pitchers is already adjusted to the run environment to make it 100 in all seasons.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                    For those curious about Mr. Boggs............

                    [ATTACH]139056[/ATTACH]
                    If we ever get the complete data I believe that we will find that Boggs relative OB% did not drop much on the road, but he lose 16-17 points off his OPS+ when adjusted. That is over half his Rbat, maybe 25 WAR. It drops him from 90ish to 65ish.

                    Also he is rated as much as 150 defensive runs worse in PCA. If that is right he'd be a 50 war player. I think he deserves some credit for learning to take advantage of his park, but I think he's around a top 60 player rather than a top 30 player.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
                      You are always defending these new guys against my old favorites.

                      HAHAHAHA!!! See how easy that happens?
                      Who, muah?

                      I think most would say I'm the opposite if anything. Plus, I'm an Enos guy, just like you :gt

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brett View Post
                        209.

                        No the only reason to use the 94 or 95 is to take pitchers out of the league. OPS+ for a player is compared to non-pitchers, but the league OPS+ includes pitchers which is why it is a little less than 100. We just want to multiply by the .93 or .94 to remove the pitcher's defecit from the league an bring it back to 100. OPS+ for non pitchers is already adjusted to the run environment to make it 100 in all seasons.
                        Oh I gotcha. So all the adjustments have already been done, and that .94 is the final touch, removing pitchers. So for players in the AL with DH, should we just use the NL number for them?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                          Who, muah?

                          I think most would say I'm the opposite if anything. Plus, I'm an Enos guy, just like you :gt
                          They just talked about Country during the 5th inning of the Yankees v Cardinals game in The Lou. Jeter, at 39, was mentioned as one of the oldest Yankees to have a 4-hit game, and good ol' Country Slaughter was one of the other 2 names they mentioned.
                          "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brett View Post
                            If we ever get the complete data I believe that we will find that Boggs relative OB% did not drop much on the road, but he lose 16-17 points off his OPS+ when adjusted. That is over half his Rbat, maybe 25 WAR. It drops him from 90ish to 65ish.

                            Also he is rated as much as 150 defensive runs worse in PCA. If that is right he'd be a 50 war player. I think he deserves some credit for learning to take advantage of his park, but I think he's around a top 60 player rather than a top 30 player.
                            Here's his best five OBP seasons. Ten points is pretty significant drop wouldn't you say. Even more than the seven point SA drop in best five. His BA would probably be the biggest drop of the three slashes.

                            BoggsBest5OBP.jpg
                            Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 05-26-2014, 05:51 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
                              They just talked about Country during the 5th inning of the Yankees v Cardinals game in The Lou. Jeter, at 39, was mentioned as one of the oldest Yankees to have a 4-hit game, and good ol' Country Slaughter was one of the other 2 names they mentioned.
                              Who was the third guy?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                                Oh I gotcha. So all the adjustments have already been done, and that .94 is the final touch, removing pitchers. So for players in the AL with DH, should we just use the NL number for them?
                                So with the DH they don't include interleague when they calculate OPS+ for the league. So the pitchers are already removed so the OPS+ is 100 and we don't make an adjustment. To multiply them by the NL number would wrongly hurt AL hitters because the league rates already don't have pitchers in them. Now we could argue that AL hitters should get a small boost because DHs contribute to the league rates. DHs hit about 10% better than the non-DH league as a whole, so dividing by 9 spots in the lineup, theoretically a player from a DH league might deserve to get his final OPS+ multiplied by 1.01, but that is based on average DH production over a long period of time.

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