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  • So how do we take that number and get it back to ERA+ form?

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    • Sultan,

      Have you run the numbers on the guys from the 1920s and 1930s (pitchers that is)? I saw Lefty Grove mentioned above, just wondering about some other favorites that found a way to survive the big offensive era of that time: Dizzy Dean (of course), Dazzy Vance, Burleigh Grimes, Carl Hubbell, Lon Warneke, Schoolboy Rowe, Mel Harder, Lefty Gomez, Bill Sherdel, Jesse Haines, Eppa Rixey, Dolf Luque, etc etc etc, you know the usual suspects.

      I imagine their numbers won't look as sexy, what with having to pitch in that era. Maybe you have posted them all and I just missed it.
      "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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      • Bottom of the first post brotha

        I'll run some of the guys u mentioned

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        • We have to,adjust these RA+ numbers for defense (the best we can) before we adjust for anything else. That probably affects RA+ scores a lot more than park issues that current park factors are missing on.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • Its true. Defensive issues are probably bigger than park. Also by the way, we may never have an ERA+ that actually looks at each batter that the pitcher faced. Only recently has WAR been able to look at the general offensive level of specific opponents (teams) that the pitcher faced.

            Matt, what do you think about Ryan being basically a 102 or 103 ERA+ on the road? That is relative to everyone on the road.

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            • Hey Bo, not using park factors. Just home/road splits.

              Its using ERA so teams making errors behind a pitcher shouldn't be an issue.

              What are your ideas on how to factor in defense? That total zone thing doesn't go back very many years, right?

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              • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                Bottom of the first post brotha

                I'll run some of the guys u mentioned
                Awesome, I appreciate it! Great work my friend!
                "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                • Here's something else..

                  Nolan

                  3.95 PA/K
                  8.07 PA/BB

                  Dean

                  7.03 PA/K
                  18.04 PA/BB

                  Maddux

                  6.05 PA/K
                  20.44 PA/BB

                  Seaver

                  5.32 PA/K
                  13.93 PA/BB

                  Pedro

                  3.61 PA/K
                  14.99 PA/BB

                  Grove

                  7.33 PA/K
                  14.00 PA/BB

                  Morris

                  6.50 PA/K
                  11.59 PA/BB

                  Clemens

                  4.33 PA/K
                  12.81 PA/BB

                  RJohnson

                  3.50 PA/K
                  11.40 PA/BB

                  Mussina

                  5.18 PA/K
                  18.58 PA/BB

                  What if we had a yearly league data base of PA/K and PA/BB and we could get those numbers relative. What would that mean.

                  Here's a silly question, perhaps. Why does a pitchers BF (batters faced) differ slightly from their PA against. Using BF keeps you on the main page at bb-ref and using PA against requires a "more stats" click.
                  Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 06-11-2014, 05:36 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                    Hey Bo, not using park factors. Just home/road splits.

                    Its using ERA so teams making errors behind a pitcher shouldn't be an issue.

                    What are your ideas on how to factor in defense? That total zone thing doesn't go back very many years, right?
                    FRAA is better than ignoring defensive support. TZ is better than FRAA. DNR is better than TZ. PCA is somewhere in there, but certainly better than nothing.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brett View Post
                      Its true. Defensive issues are probably bigger than park. Also by the way, we may never have an ERA+ that actually looks at each batter that the pitcher faced. Only recently has WAR been able to look at the general offensive level of specific opponents (teams) that the pitcher faced.

                      Matt, what do you think about Ryan being basically a 102 or 103 ERA+ on the road? That is relative to everyone on the road.
                      Haven't given it much thought. Maybe the fact that he specialized in no-contact pitching like none before while playing in mostly exclusively pitchers parks is making some crazy things happen.
                      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                        Haven't given it much thought. Maybe the fact that he specialized in no-contact pitching like none before while playing in mostly exclusively pitchers parks is making some crazy things happen.
                        Do you think he got more calls at home and since he K'd and walked a lot this had a bigger impact?

                        For the record, we are taking a players road numbers, adjusting them up by a coefficient that predicts total numbers, and then comparing that directly to league averages.

                        Comment


                        • There are a few rare BF that are not PAs. I think a sac bunt is not a PA because/therefore it does not affect on base percentage, but sac flyes do.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brett View Post
                            Do you think he got more calls at home and since he K'd and walked a lot this had a bigger impact?

                            For the record, we are taking a players road numbers, adjusting them up by a coefficient that predicts total numbers, and then comparing that directly to league averages.
                            Yeah, we were talking about ERA+, so I was thinking about what factors could be causing a shift beween home and road ERA (RA) +. Not exactly the same thing, of course.
                            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by brett View Post
                              Do you think he got more calls at home and since he K'd and walked a lot this had a bigger impact?
                              Calls aren't based on home/away in baseball. It could vary between different home plate umps because of their own version of zone, but no home/away bias like in basketball and foul calls.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by brett View Post
                                There are a few rare BF that are not PAs. I think a sac bunt is not a PA because/therefore it does not affect on base percentage, but sac flyes do.
                                So using BF is proper?

                                What do you think of using a K or BB per BF relative stat? Did you see Pedro's? My lord that dude was studly.

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