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  • If anyone is interested in a graphical method of looking at player performance, based on simplified base-out ratio, take a look at the static and dynamic charts at http://www.offenseratio.altervista.org/ An example of a static chart is given below. No claim to be representing the most accurate method of production in terms of runs or wins, which I gladly leave to others, just a fun way of looking at how batters compare using the most basic raw stats.

    HOF.jpg

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    • Originally posted by brett View Post

      Actually wRC+ is a better version OPS+. It will have a similar scale, so like 100 is average and 200+ is Ruth territory If you took wRC+ and did your rrOPS+ adjustments you would actually get a better estimate of players' relative batting value and you could adjust WAR directly. wOBA is complicated, and I will have to go back and read the details but it tries to create a scale similar to all time on-base percentage levels, so like .330 might be average, and .400 would be MVP level. It is superfluous to wRC+, but really just an attempt to make it look like a traditional percentage.
      wOBA is not superfluous to wRC+! wRC+ is calculated from wOBA. wRC+ is weighted runs created relative to average, and wOBA is used to determine weighted runs. Yes, wRC+ is an easier stat to use; you can tell at a glance how good a hitter a player is. But wOBA is a rawer value. If wRC+ is like OPS+, wOBA is like OPS.

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      • Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post

        Any luck with updating some of the folks requested:
        David Ortiz
        Lance Berkman
        Reggie Smith
        Jeff Kent
        Will Clark
        Cesar Cedeno
        David Concepcion
        Phil Rizzuto
        Harry Hooper
        Joe Sewell
        Toby Harrah
        Kiki Cuyler
        Heinie Groh
        Zack Wheat

        Thanks : )
        missin a few but main post in red are your guys
        "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

        ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Stolensingle View Post

          wOBA is not superfluous to wRC+! wRC+ is calculated from wOBA. wRC+ is weighted runs created relative to average, and wOBA is used to determine weighted runs. Yes, wRC+ is an easier stat to use; you can tell at a glance how good a hitter a player is. But wOBA is a rawer value. If wRC+ is like OPS+, wOBA is like OPS.
          But do you NEED wOBA to calculate wRC+? Can two players with different wRC+ have the same wOBA or vice versa?

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          • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

            missin a few but main post in red are your guys
            Excellent, can you update the Excel sheet also to show the WAR+ impact, thank you
            Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
            http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

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            • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

              missin a few but main post in red are your guys
              How about Willie Davis? (When you get around to it)

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              • Originally posted by layson27 View Post

                How about Willie Davis? (When you get around to it)
                111.7...up from 106
                "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

                ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

                  111.7...up from 106
                  Thanks, I thought he'd get a nice boost.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post

                    Excellent, can you update the Excel sheet also to show the WAR+ impact, thank you
                    forgot about that lol it was a lot of work. I like it cause you can sort by position. think I wanna re-do it though.
                    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

                    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by layson27 View Post

                      Thanks, I thought he'd get a nice boost.
                      Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978
                      "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

                      ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

                        Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978
                        Crushed Japanese League pitching in '77, '78 not so much.
                        Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                        http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

                          Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978
                          He's probably an all-time top 10 defensive Centerfielder. All of the major advanced fielding stats show him to be fantastic (TZ, DRA, FRAA, Tom Thress).


                          Plus I found his RF/9 was 18 points lower at Home, meaning both his offensive and defensive stats were hurt quite a bit by Dodger Stadium.
                          Last edited by layson27; 08-27-2019, 04:50 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brett View Post

                            You can try. Since OPS+ is about 6% lower with pitchers you could multiply the NL rates by 1.06, but DH's are something like 16% above average, spread through the lineup that would also be another 2% there. So 1.08. That's a first impression. In fact it raises an issue that even though pitchers are removed in finding OPS+, AL hitters are still compared to a lineup with a DH added.
                            In addition to the DH numbers being part of OPS+ in the NL vs AL, we should also factor in the effect of pinch hitters (they’re truly awful) when comparing players OPS+ between the two leagues. This is especially meaningful for 1973-1996 players, before interleague play, one would think...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                              The one that surprised me was Frank Thomas.
                              Me too.

                              Thomas hit 312 homers at home, 209 on the road.

                              He’s 11th in home runs at home, and 50th in HR on the road.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post

                                In addition to the DH numbers being part of OPS+ in the NL vs AL, we should also factor in the effect of pinch hitters (they’re truly awful) when comparing players OPS+ between the two leagues. This is especially meaningful for 1973-1996 players, before interleague play, one would think...
                                By using league OPS+ numbers we are essentially removing the DH from the AL to keep things relatively even. The pinch hitter factor I never really considered. Sure it is a "lesser" player perhaps but you can also have a one PA platoon advantage guaranteed.
                                "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

                                ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

                                Comment

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