Progressing Toward Better Stats Thread

[Sultan_1895-1948]

FYI retrosheet has Home/Road splits back to 1905, so we finally can get the full career road numbers of Cobb & Speaker.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/C/Jcobbt1010.htm

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/S/Jspeat1010.htm

Oh **** really? Very cool! Funny looking back at these just a few years back we only to 1913 or so. So some peeps have been putting in some serious research work!

[layson27]

FYI retrosheet has Home/Road splits back to 1905, so we finally can get the full career road numbers of Cobb & Speaker.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/C/Jcobbt1010.htm

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/S/Jspeat1010.htm

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Of the many players I've looked at, here are the CAREER ROAD SLGeff (TB/AB-H) leaders from 1908-current .7500 and above.

The second list is same guys but their road SLGeff is divided by their specific league's road SLGeff and multiplied by their league's specific OPS+ to remove pitchers.

The next step would be using overall to basically make their home parks a road park and then if one wanted to weigh by a certain number of PA.

Pretty good representation of all eras with this stat though.

*Pujols and Trout not listed in second list*

Ruth       1.029       Ruth        191.1
Gehrig     .9921       Gehrig      171.4
DiMaggio   .9154       TWilliams   170.4        
TWilliams  .9143       DiMaggio    166.7
Hornsby    .8790       JJackson    165.8
Trout      .8486       Cobb        165.7
BaBonds    .8471       Hornsby     160.5
MRamirez   .8455       BaBonds     149.4
Piazza     .8419       Aaron       149.1
Cobb       .8331       Musial      147.3
BTerry     .8097       Mantle      146.5
Foxx       .8091       Mays        145.48
Musial     .7967       Piazza      145.43
Aaron      .7964       Foxx        144.5
McGwrie    .7953       Heilmann    142.8
Pujols     .7832       McGwire     142.4
Mays       .7856       Mize        142.3
JGonzalez  .7833       BTerry      141.9
VGuerrero  .7795       MRamirez    140.8
Heilmann   .7751       JGonzalez   139.1
ABelle     .7710       ABelle      137.9
Mantle     .7690       VGuerrero   135.9
ARodriguez .7660       ARodriguez  134.56
JJackson   .7622       ASimmons    134.55
Goslin     .7580       Goslin      131.3
Mize       .7576        
ASimmons   .7548

Ok so Brett has brought it to my attention that we cannot remove pitchers using OPS+ with Slugging Efficiency. So here's the second simply after dividing by their league's SLGeff

Under construction+

Ruth       1.029       Ruth        203.4
Gehrig     .9921       Gehrig      182.9
DiMaggio   .9154       TWilliams   182.2        
TWilliams  .9143       DiMaggio    178.4
Hornsby    .8790       JJackson    176.6
Trout      .8486       Cobb        176.3
BaBonds    .8471       Hornsby     171.3
MRamirez   .8455       BaBonds     159.1
Piazza     .8419       Aaron       159.4
Cobb       .8331       Musial      158.2
BTerry     .8097       Mantle      146.5
Foxx       .8091       Mays        145.48
Musial     .7967       Piazza      145.43
Aaron      .7964       Foxx        144.5
McGwrie    .7953       Heilmann    142.8
Pujols     .7832       McGwire     142.4
Mays       .7856       Mize        142.3
JGonzalez  .7833       BTerry      141.9
VGuerrero  .7795       MRamirez    140.8
Heilmann   .7751       JGonzalez   139.1
ABelle     .7710       ABelle      137.9
Mantle     .7690       VGuerrero   135.9
ARodriguez .7660       ARodriguez  134.56
JJackson   .7622       ASimmons    134.55
Goslin     .7580       Goslin      131.3
Mize       .7576        
ASimmons   .7548

[Sultan_1895-1948]

In depth? Yes, Sir.

Enthralling!!!

Thank you so much for years of arduous effort here!!!!!!!!!

Thanks bud, just throwing up ideas and trying to learn some things along the way :P

[Floyd Gondolli]

Are you just now reading through this thread Chris?

In depth? Yes, Sir.

Enthralling!!!

Thank you so much for years of arduous effort here!!!!!!!!!

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Me too.

Thomas hit 312 homers at home, 209 on the road.

He’s 11th in home runs at home, and 50th in HR on the road.

Are you just now reading through this thread Chris?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

In addition to the DH numbers being part of OPS+ in the NL vs AL, we should also factor in the effect of pinch hitters (they’re truly awful) when comparing players OPS+ between the two leagues. This is especially meaningful for 1973-1996 players, before interleague play, one would think...

By using league OPS+ numbers we are essentially removing the DH from the AL to keep things relatively even. The pinch hitter factor I never really considered. Sure it is a "lesser" player perhaps but you can also have a one PA platoon advantage guaranteed.

[Floyd Gondolli]

The one that surprised me was Frank Thomas.

Me too.

Thomas hit 312 homers at home, 209 on the road.

He’s 11th in home runs at home, and 50th in HR on the road.

[Floyd Gondolli]

You can try. Since OPS+ is about 6% lower with pitchers you could multiply the NL rates by 1.06, but DH's are something like 16% above average, spread through the lineup that would also be another 2% there. So 1.08. That's a first impression. In fact it raises an issue that even though pitchers are removed in finding OPS+, AL hitters are still compared to a lineup with a DH added.

In addition to the DH numbers being part of OPS+ in the NL vs AL, we should also factor in the effect of pinch hitters (they’re truly awful) when comparing players OPS+ between the two leagues. This is especially meaningful for 1973-1996 players, before interleague play, one would think...

[layson27]

Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978

He's probably an all-time top 10 defensive Centerfielder. All of the major advanced fielding stats show him to be fantastic (TZ, DRA, FRAA, Tom Thress).


Plus I found his RF/9 was 18 points lower at Home, meaning both his offensive and defensive stats were hurt quite a bit by Dodger Stadium.

[Jar of Flies]

Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978

Crushed Japanese League pitching in '77, '78 not so much.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Thanks, I thought he'd get a nice boost.

Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Excellent, can you update the Excel sheet also to show the WAR+ impact, thank you

forgot about that lol it was a lot of work. I like it cause you can sort by position. think I wanna re-do it though.

[layson27]

111.7...up from 106

Thanks, I thought he'd get a nice boost.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

How about Willie Davis? (When you get around to it)

111.7...up from 106