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Progressing Toward Better Stats Thread

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  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by layson27 View Post
    FYI retrosheet has Home/Road splits back to 1905, so we finally can get the full career road numbers of Cobb & Speaker.

    https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/C/Jcobbt1010.htm

    https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/S/Jspeat1010.htm
    Oh **** really? Very cool! Funny looking back at these just a few years back we only to 1913 or so. So some peeps have been putting in some serious research work!

    Leave a comment:


  • layson27
    replied
    FYI retrosheet has Home/Road splits back to 1905, so we finally can get the full career road numbers of Cobb & Speaker.

    https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/C/Jcobbt1010.htm

    https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/S/Jspeat1010.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Of the many players I've looked at, here are the CAREER ROAD SLGeff (TB/AB-H) leaders from 1908-current .7500 and above.

    The second list is same guys but their road SLGeff is divided by their specific league's road SLGeff and multiplied by their league's specific OPS+ to remove pitchers.

    The next step would be using overall to basically make their home parks a road park and then if one wanted to weigh by a certain number of PA.

    Pretty good representation of all eras with this stat though.

    *Pujols and Trout not listed in second list*
    Code:
    Ruth       1.029       Ruth        191.1
    Gehrig     .9921       Gehrig      171.4
    DiMaggio   .9154       TWilliams   170.4        
    TWilliams  .9143       DiMaggio    166.7
    Hornsby    .8790       JJackson    165.8
    Trout      .8486       Cobb        165.7
    BaBonds    .8471       Hornsby     160.5
    MRamirez   .8455       BaBonds     149.4
    Piazza     .8419       Aaron       149.1
    Cobb       .8331       Musial      147.3
    BTerry     .8097       Mantle      146.5
    Foxx       .8091       Mays        145.48
    Musial     .7967       Piazza      145.43
    Aaron      .7964       Foxx        144.5
    McGwrie    .7953       Heilmann    142.8
    Pujols     .7832       McGwire     142.4
    Mays       .7856       Mize        142.3
    JGonzalez  .7833       BTerry      141.9
    VGuerrero  .7795       MRamirez    140.8
    Heilmann   .7751       JGonzalez   139.1
    ABelle     .7710       ABelle      137.9
    Mantle     .7690       VGuerrero   135.9
    ARodriguez .7660       ARodriguez  134.56
    JJackson   .7622       ASimmons    134.55
    Goslin     .7580       Goslin      131.3
    Mize       .7576        
    ASimmons   .7548
    Ok so Brett has brought it to my attention that we cannot remove pitchers using OPS+ with Slugging Efficiency. So here's the second simply after dividing by their league's SLGeff

    Under construction+

    Code:
    Ruth 1.029 Ruth 203.4
    Gehrig .9921 Gehrig 182.9
    DiMaggio .9154 TWilliams 182.2
    TWilliams .9143 DiMaggio 178.4
    Hornsby .8790 JJackson 176.6
    Trout .8486 Cobb 176.3
    BaBonds .8471 Hornsby 171.3
    MRamirez .8455 BaBonds 159.1
    Piazza .8419 Aaron 159.4
    Cobb .8331 Musial 158.2
    BTerry .8097 Mantle 146.5
    Foxx .8091 Mays 145.48
    Musial .7967 Piazza 145.43
    Aaron .7964 Foxx 144.5
    McGwrie .7953 Heilmann 142.8
    Pujols .7832 McGwire 142.4
    Mays .7856 Mize 142.3
    JGonzalez .7833 BTerry 141.9
    VGuerrero .7795 MRamirez 140.8
    Heilmann .7751 JGonzalez 139.1
    ABelle .7710 ABelle 137.9
    Mantle .7690 VGuerrero 135.9
    ARodriguez .7660 ARodriguez 134.56
    JJackson .7622 ASimmons 134.55
    Goslin .7580 Goslin 131.3
    Mize .7576
    ASimmons .7548
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 08-31-2019, 04:03 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post

    In depth? Yes, Sir.

    Enthralling!!!

    Thank you so much for years of arduous effort here!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks bud, just throwing up ideas and trying to learn some things along the way :P

    Leave a comment:


  • Floyd Gondolli
    replied
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

    Are you just now reading through this thread Chris?
    In depth? Yes, Sir.

    Enthralling!!!

    Thank you so much for years of arduous effort here!!!!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post

    Me too.

    Thomas hit 312 homers at home, 209 on the road.

    He’s 11th in home runs at home, and 50th in HR on the road.
    Are you just now reading through this thread Chris?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post

    In addition to the DH numbers being part of OPS+ in the NL vs AL, we should also factor in the effect of pinch hitters (they’re truly awful) when comparing players OPS+ between the two leagues. This is especially meaningful for 1973-1996 players, before interleague play, one would think...
    By using league OPS+ numbers we are essentially removing the DH from the AL to keep things relatively even. The pinch hitter factor I never really considered. Sure it is a "lesser" player perhaps but you can also have a one PA platoon advantage guaranteed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Floyd Gondolli
    replied
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
    The one that surprised me was Frank Thomas.
    Me too.

    Thomas hit 312 homers at home, 209 on the road.

    He’s 11th in home runs at home, and 50th in HR on the road.

    Leave a comment:


  • Floyd Gondolli
    replied
    Originally posted by brett View Post

    You can try. Since OPS+ is about 6% lower with pitchers you could multiply the NL rates by 1.06, but DH's are something like 16% above average, spread through the lineup that would also be another 2% there. So 1.08. That's a first impression. In fact it raises an issue that even though pitchers are removed in finding OPS+, AL hitters are still compared to a lineup with a DH added.
    In addition to the DH numbers being part of OPS+ in the NL vs AL, we should also factor in the effect of pinch hitters (they’re truly awful) when comparing players OPS+ between the two leagues. This is especially meaningful for 1973-1996 players, before interleague play, one would think...

    Leave a comment:


  • layson27
    replied
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

    Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978
    He's probably an all-time top 10 defensive Centerfielder. All of the major advanced fielding stats show him to be fantastic (TZ, DRA, FRAA, Tom Thress).


    Plus I found his RF/9 was 18 points lower at Home, meaning both his offensive and defensive stats were hurt quite a bit by Dodger Stadium.
    Last edited by layson27; 08-27-2019, 04:50 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jar of Flies
    replied
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

    Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978
    Crushed Japanese League pitching in '77, '78 not so much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by layson27 View Post

    Thanks, I thought he'd get a nice boost.
    Yeah it's interesting seeing those random guys you never really hear about. How was he in the field? And what happened to him in 1977 and 1978

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post

    Excellent, can you update the Excel sheet also to show the WAR+ impact, thank you
    forgot about that lol it was a lot of work. I like it cause you can sort by position. think I wanna re-do it though.

    Leave a comment:


  • layson27
    replied
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post

    111.7...up from 106
    Thanks, I thought he'd get a nice boost.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by layson27 View Post

    How about Willie Davis? (When you get around to it)
    111.7...up from 106

    Leave a comment:

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