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Is the "Hold" the most useless stat ever?

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  • Is the "Hold" the most useless stat ever?

    I just watched Dan Kolb (my son has a nickname for him..."The Tee")
    come in at the start of the bottom of the eighth with a 3 run lead, get one out , give up 4 runs, lose the game, and get a "hold".

    That is a stupid stat!
    Forget it Casey, He didn't touch second, either.

  • #2
    --Are you sure he got a hold? Earning a hold indicates you preserved the lead that existed when you came in. I don't think you can get a loss and a hold in the same game.

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    • #3
      Yep..he left with the tying run an 3rd and the winner on 2nd

      I didnt realize that the hold was that ridiculous till I saw the boxy
      Forget it Casey, He didn't touch second, either.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by leecemark
        --Are you sure he got a hold? Earning a hold indicates you preserved the lead that existed when you came in. I don't think you can get a loss and a hold in the same game.
        You can. You just need to come in in a save situation and not blow the save before handing it off to another guy. Following scenario:

        You come in with a three run lead, no outs in the bottom of the ninth. It's a save situation. You promptly walk 5 consecutive batters, giving up two runs and loading the bases. You then throw three straight balls to the next batter. You get replaced by another guy. It's still a save situation for him; your team has a one run lead, so if he gets the next three outs, he'll get the save. Instead, he promptly gives up a game ending walkoff grand slam.

        Now, since you entered in a save situation, and you exited in a save situation, you get credit for a hold. Since you're tagged for 7 runs, you get credited with the loss. It's entirely possible to get both in the same game.
        "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

        Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

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        • #5
          Don't even need the made up scenario....
          http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250602120
          game just ended a few minutes ago....
          Forget it Casey, He didn't touch second, either.

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          • #6
            LOL!! wow...that is a REALLY poorly thought out stat...how the heck do you get a hold and a loss in the same game...

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            • #7
              What exactly did Kolb "hold"? He entered the game with a three run lead, and through his pitching, gave up FOUR runs and LOST the game for the Braves! How can he get credit for a "HOLD" stat?

              To me, that is similar to a relief pitcher who throws three innings (regardless of the lead) and gets a save. I mean, if your team has a 7 run lead, and the guy comes in and starts giving up runs left and right, are you going to leave him in there long enough to see if he can get three full innings and get a cheap "save"? Any reliever who comes in with more than a three run lead should NEVER get a SAVE under ANY circumstances, IMHO. I'm sure we can find examples of some guy pitched THREE innings with his team leading by 10 or more runs, and he STILL qualifies for a SAVE just because he pitched three innings. Right?

              :noidea

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              • #8
                Originally posted by toopier
                Is the "Hold" the most useless stat ever?
                maybe it'll go the way of GWRBI
                "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                • #9
                  Wow useless but................... maybe not hte most useless.....

                  well how about SF(sacrafice flies) WHO CARES!!!
                  (not me)


                  but I do agree getting a positive stat (hold) and a negative stat (lose)
                  is pretty strange
                  I Would Rather Play Baseball Than Eat-Andy Pafko

                  A's Fan! :gt

                  In Zito We Trust!

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                  • #10
                    I say bring back GWRBI! Sure, it's useless, but so are ALL stats. At least GWRBIs are fun.

                    Most useless stat: Hitting streaks (except consecutive at-bat hitting streaks)
                    "Endlessly deferred redemption provides, paradoxically enough, its own kind of reward... It tests our faith and marks us as spiritually stronger than other fans for whom entrance into heaven is a far cheaper thing."
                    -Scott Stossel

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                    • #11
                      I know that the "hold" was made up cuz middle relievers had no stat of their own. We should be discussing percentage of inherited runners that score.
                      a hold in a loss is like getting a GWRBI...in a game that you lost.
                      Forget it Casey, He didn't touch second, either.

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                      • #12
                        The difference between a Hold and it's cousin the Save is that a Save is nothing more than a game ending Hold. What extraordinary is the "experts" who firmly believe in the Save statistic don't take the Hold statistic seriously. You'd think they would. I do think both stats are junk stats because the worst pitcher can hold a three run lead successfully most of the time.
                        Selig is NOT my Bud!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by west coast orange and black
                          maybe it'll go the way of GWRBI
                          The gwerbie is the greatest stat ever. Ever since I first saw it, I was hooked. Close MVP races should be decided with the GWRBI has the tiebreaker.

                          Honest question, does anybody know the single-season and career record holders for the GWRBI?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Double-J
                            The difference between a Hold and it's cousin the Save is that a Save is nothing more than a game ending Hold. What extraordinary is the "experts" who firmly believe in the Save statistic don't take the Hold statistic seriously. You'd think they would. I do think both stats are junk stats because the worst pitcher can hold a three run lead successfully most of the time.

                            Great Post JJ

                            I agree, the Closer is a thief, that makes 3 x as much as other relievers, but sucks just as much or else they'd be starting

                            Someone mentioned SF, I don't agree that Sac Flies are useless, it shows that a guy tries to make contact instead of K'ing and going for the fences, to help the team, it's not really hard to get wood on the bat to pop it up or to drive it into the ground, any MLB SHOULD be able to do that

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                            • #15
                              Imagine this scenario...

                              The home team is losing, 1-0, going into the ninth inning. The home starter is pulled after 8 IP with 1 ER, replaced by a reliever who works the top half of the ninth, giving up four runs. Going into the bottom of the ninth, the home team trails 5-0. They pull off a six run inning and win the game. The reliever with an ERA of 32.00 gets the win.

                              My point is that pitching stats are a slippery subject. I don't think the hold is any better or worse than the win, loss, or save.
                              CLEVELAND INDIANS Central Division Champions

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