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  • Minor leagues before 1910

    would like to find out where can i locate leagues that either played before 1910, or leagues that planned to play and never did?

  • #2
    Leagues Before 1910

    The Encyclopedia of Minor League Baseball published in 1997 is the best starting point for leagues that actually played. It's still available through Amazon, but expensive ($184.00).

    As for leagues that never had their averages published see Carlos Bauer's website the Minor League Researcher at:

    http://minorleagueresearcher.blogspot.com/

    Check the Feburary and March 2006 archives, Carlos has listed hundreds of leagues whose averages never appeared in the Baseball Guides - many before 1910.

    I recently compiled the Intermountain League of 1901 and 1902 which had never been done before. So there are many of us working on completing the history of minor league baseball - and we still have a long way to go!!

    :atthepc

    Comment


    • #3
      minor leagues

      to billyed

      thanks but Carlos didnt list too many leagues that played before 1910. also what teams played in the Intermountain league (1902).

      to all others

      here is the list of leagues i have that would like to know if they played or not. if played or not would like to know or comfirm what teams played in theses leagues. they are

      Arkansas State leagues - 1897
      Canadian League - 1886 and 1896 to 1897
      Central New Jersey League - 1892
      Central New York League -1888
      Central Pennsuylvania Leagues - 1896 to 1898
      Connecticut State League - 1884 to 1885
      Colorado State League - 1885 to 1899
      Central League - 1897
      Eastern Association - 1881 (found information that this league played but with what cities played)
      Eastern International League -1888, 1895
      Eastern Iowa League - 1895
      Hudson River League - 1888
      Illinois-Iowa League - 1890 to 1892
      Indiana State League - 1888 to 1900
      Interstate League - 1885
      Maine State League - 1897
      Massachusetts State league - 1885
      Kansas State League - 1887 to 1895
      Kentucky-Indiana League - 1896
      Middle States League - 1889
      Montana State League - 1892 to 1920's
      Naugatuck Valley League - 1898
      Nebraksa State League - 1892
      New Brunswick League - 1890
      New Jersey State League - 1892
      New England Inter-state - 1888
      New Hampshire State League - 1886
      Northeastern League - 1887
      Northwest League - 1879 to 1891 (found information that this leauge played but need what cities played)
      Ohio-Michigan League - 1893
      Ohio State League - 1884
      Ohio-West Virginia league - 1897
      Pacific Interstate League - 1891
      Pacific States Legaue - 1898
      Pennsylvania State Association - 1886 to 1887
      Pennsylvania State League - 1890, 1902, 1916
      Southern Negro League - 1920
      Upper Peninsula League - 1890 to 1895
      Virginia League - 1885 to 1886
      Western Inter-State League - 1890, 1895
      here are a few more leagues

      Alabama- Mississippi League - 1936
      Anthracite League - 1928
      Arkansas - Texas League 1905
      Atlantic League - 1907 to 1908
      Black Hills League - 1891 to 1892
      Cumberland Valley League - 1895 to 1896
      Empire League 1905 to 1908
      ILIP (All black League) unknown date
      Indiana-Illinois League - 1899, 1899
      Indiana-Ohio League - 1907
      Iowa State League - 1912
      Midwest League - 1891
      Mountain League - 1887
      New England League - 1877 to 1878 (found information that this league played, just need what cities played)
      New Hampshire League - 1907
      New York State League - 1888
      New Pacific League - 1898
      Northern Maine League - 1909
      Northern Michigan League - 1909
      Northern New York League - 1902
      Old Dominion League - 1930
      Pacfic National League - 1905
      Ohio Valley League - 1891
      Pennsylvania - West Virginia League - 1914
      Southern New Hampshire League - 1907
      Tennessee -Alabama League - 1907
      Vermont State League - 1907
      West Arkansas League - 1924
      Western League - 1889
      West Texas League - 1905

      thanks for any information on these Leagues






      :atthepc

      Comment


      • #4
        Pre 1910 Leagues

        Hi Frank:

        The Intermountain League of 1901 and 1902 (sometimes referred to as the Utah State League) consisted of these teams -

        1901: Ogden, Salt Lake, Park City, and Railway-Lagoon (this team played near Salt Lake).

        1902: Ogden, Salt Lake, Lagoon, and Logan.

        Carlos has published my record of the 1901 season and it can be found on his site.

        As for the other leagues you've asked about - I saw quite a number of those leagues listed by Carlos. I count 8 pages and approximately 300 leagues in the list prior to 1910. It's true that Carlos himself did not compile all the leagues he has cited, but each citation also includes the author/compiler's name.

        :atthepc

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Frank_reilly
          to billyed

          thanks but Carlos didnt list too many leagues that played before 1910. also what teams played in the Intermountain league (1902).

          to all others

          here is the list of leagues i have that would like to know if they played or not. if played or not would like to know or comfirm what teams played in theses leagues. they are

          Arkansas State leagues - 1897
          Canadian League - 1886 and 1896 to 1897
          Central New Jersey League - 1892
          Central New York League -1888
          Central Pennsuylvania Leagues - 1896 to 1898
          Connecticut State League - 1884 to 1885
          Colorado State League - 1885 to 1899
          Central League - 1897
          Eastern Association - 1881 (found information that this league played but with what cities played)
          Eastern International League -1888, 1895
          Eastern Iowa League - 1895
          Hudson River League - 1888
          Illinois-Iowa League - 1890 to 1892
          Indiana State League - 1888 to 1900
          Interstate League - 1885
          Maine State League - 1897
          Massachusetts State league - 1885
          Kansas State League - 1887 to 1895
          Kentucky-Indiana League - 1896
          Middle States League - 1889
          Montana State League - 1892 to 1920's
          Naugatuck Valley League - 1898
          Nebraksa State League - 1892
          New Brunswick League - 1890
          New Jersey State League - 1892
          New England Inter-state - 1888
          New Hampshire State League - 1886
          Northeastern League - 1887
          Northwest League - 1879 to 1891 (found information that this leauge played but need what cities played)
          Ohio-Michigan League - 1893
          Ohio State League - 1884
          Ohio-West Virginia league - 1897
          Pacific Interstate League - 1891
          Pacific States Legaue - 1898
          Pennsylvania State Association - 1886 to 1887
          Pennsylvania State League - 1890, 1902, 1916
          Southern Negro League - 1920
          Upper Peninsula League - 1890 to 1895
          Virginia League - 1885 to 1886
          Western Inter-State League - 1890, 1895
          here are a few more leagues

          Alabama- Mississippi League - 1936
          Anthracite League - 1928
          Arkansas - Texas League 1905
          Atlantic League - 1907 to 1908
          Black Hills League - 1891 to 1892
          Cumberland Valley League - 1895 to 1896
          Empire League 1905 to 1908
          ILIP (All black League) unknown date
          Indiana-Illinois League - 1899, 1899
          Indiana-Ohio League - 1907
          Iowa State League - 1912
          Midwest League - 1891
          Mountain League - 1887
          New England League - 1877 to 1878 (found information that this league played, just need what cities played)
          New Hampshire League - 1907
          New York State League - 1888
          New Pacific League - 1898
          Northern Maine League - 1909
          Northern Michigan League - 1909
          Northern New York League - 1902
          Old Dominion League - 1930
          Pacfic National League - 1905
          Ohio Valley League - 1891
          Pennsylvania - West Virginia League - 1914
          Southern New Hampshire League - 1907
          Tennessee -Alabama League - 1907
          Vermont State League - 1907
          West Arkansas League - 1924
          Western League - 1889
          West Texas League - 1905

          thanks for any information on these Leagues






          :atthepc
          The 1888 Central NY League played and the 1888 NY State League did not. The Empire State League in NY played from 1905 to 1908, but don't confuse it with the Empire League from a different state.

          Hope that helps you!
          "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
          "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

          Comment


          • #6
            Minor Leagues before 1910

            thanks tony for the info but do you know what cities played in those Leagues

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TonyK
              The 1888 Central NY League played and the 1888 NY State League did not. The Empire State League in NY played from 1905 to 1908, but don't confuse it with the Empire League from a different state.

              Hope that helps you!
              I could be wrong, but I thought the Empire State League was a Georgia-based in league in the early 1910s.

              Comment


              • #8
                minor legues before 1910

                yes the was a Empire State league based in Georgia and it played in 1913, the other Empire Baseball league (which I am looking for what cities played in this league) played in NY from 1905 to 1908.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Frank_reilly
                  yes the was a Empire State league based in Georgia and it played in 1913, the other Empire Baseball league (which I am looking for what cities played in this league) played in NY from 1905 to 1908.
                  Over the weekend I'll find my notes at home on the 1886 Central NY, 1888 Central NY, and the 1905-08 Empire State League. Note that there were two Empire State Leagues in the US and a third league with a similar name. I am not sure what the other states were thinking since NY's nickname is the Empire State.

                  One of the Central NY Leagues had a total population in all of it's towns of only 31,000 I believe! Yet they supported the weekday games and Saturday games. It was common for fans to wait at the train station for their team to return from a big game. A band would play, fireworks might go off, and the team, the band, and the fans would march down the streets late at night singing and celebrating. They sure loved their teams back then!
                  "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                  "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The 1897 Central PA League did play from 5/15 to 9/16. It was a Class F League and it's teams were from Williamsport, Lock Haven, Milton, Sunbury, Shamokin, Pottsville, and Bloomsburg.

                    There also was an 1896 Central PA League but I do not know much about it.
                    "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                    "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      when did classifications start? - i thought it wasn't until the early 20th century and that was from A to D

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        minor leagues before 1910

                        Classification started in 1902:atthepc

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Frank_reilly
                          Classification started in 1902:atthepc
                          One of the misconceptions is Minor League Baseball didn't officially begin until 1902 or 1903 when the National Association was ratified to help protect minor league teams from being raided by the major leagues.

                          Classifications had been around well before that year. The 1897 Central PA League was a Class F League. The 1897 NY State League, for example, was a Class C League. Classes in the 19th Century began with Class A, usually the Eastern and Western Leagues, and moved down to Class F. There was no central governing body so chaos was the norm.

                          The main difference was the Team Salary Limit that was published in the Sporting News and Sporting Life. It was thought if the limit was $1,500 per month per team, then your league would have better players than a league with a team salary limit of only $1,000. Of course most teams ignored their limit by paying their top pitchers under the table. Newspapers were filled with indignant reporters complaints that their rivals were spending more than their limit to get better players.
                          "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                          "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Frank_reilly
                            thanks tony for the info but do you know what cities played in those Leagues
                            Frank,

                            The towns in the 1886 Central NY League 6/8 to 9/11 were:

                            Canastota
                            Little Falls
                            Norwich
                            Oneida
                            Frankfort ( disbanded after 2 games)

                            The towns in the 1888 Central NY League 6/31 to 9/15 were:

                            Auburn
                            Canandaigua
                            Penn Yan
                            Seneca Falls
                            Waterloo
                            "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                            "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              good info on 19th century classification concerning salary limits but was there actually a governing body or various other mechanisms in place to develop a universal classification system, for example:

                              if salary limits were haphazard, is that a reliable method?
                              how did things change on a yearly basis from 1877-1902?

                              i think it would be great to classify the leagues as such but can it be done through much of the 19th century

                              to my knowledge there is no set classification listings of minor leagues throughout the 19th century - you're stating it as a fact - would love to see a future work that helps establish the tiers

                              is this your system of rating minor leagues or is there actually a universally accepted classification system?

                              thanks for bringing the notion to my attention - hadn't been considering it

                              Comment

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