Gibson/Piazza

[Bill Burgess]

If Josh Gibson and Mike Piazza were starting their careers today, who would you rather have?

Do you think Josh could outhit Mike? Both built their careers on their offense, and Mike is considered the best hitting catcher ever.

Do you think Josh could have fulfilled his hitting reports, or do you write them off as legendary bunk? Or to what degree do you give Josh Gibson credibility?

Bill Burgess

Sidelight question: Was Gibson's rep as solid as the Japanese Oh's?

[jalbright]

Gibson would have been Piazza with more power and better defense. Of course I'd take Josh.

Jim Albright

[leecemark]

--I rank Gibson ahead of Piazza, but I don't think its a slam dunk. Gibson is reported to have had a strong arm, which is an edge over Piazza, but he wasn't really a good defensive catcher based on my interpretation of reading about him. Josh was also considered to be an amazing hitter and, with only a modest amount of specticism, I buy that. Mike is so much better a hitter than any other MLB catcher in history thats its hard to believe Gibson was much better. That would put him in an entirely different universe as a hitting catcher and arguably the best hitter ever period. That alot to buy into based on semi-reliable and often contradictory reporting.

[Bill Burgess]

Loaded question. Do either of you feel that Gibson's star would outshine that of Japanese legend Oh, if they were both playing in the MLs today?

Would Josh outpower the legendary Oh, in terms of HRs?

Bill

[leecemark]

--Gibson would probably have hit more in his best seasons. Oh was more durable and would probably have hit more in his career.

[Bill Burgess]

That's assuming that Josh didn't take better care of himself. If he had avoided liquor/possibly drugs, he might have lasted longer and hit more homers. Very speculative though.

[jalbright]

I'd agree with Mark on Oh versus Gibson. Even if Josh had not had his liquor/drug abuse issues, he was a catcher, and catchers never last as long as first basemen because the position is far more demanding physically. Gibson might have gotten to 500 HR, but the emphasis here is on might. Even so, that's what, over 100 more than any other catcher in history?

Jim Albright

[Blackout]

Josh was still playing catcher up to the end of his career, his durability at the position is very unique considering the fact he was still winning batting average titles in 1945

[Bill Burgess]

In addition to Gibson, I consider S. OH, Lloyd, Mackey, Santop, Charleston as the great questions of history. The what-ifs can kill you, if you let them.

Bill

[Honus Wagner Rules]

That's assuming that Josh didn't care better care of himself. If he had avoided liquor/possibly drugs, he might have lasted longer and hit more homers. Very speculative though.

How would have catching 130-140 games a year effected Gibson's hitting. For all of Piazza's greatness he still has less than 400 career HRs. I highly doubt Gibson would have been a 500 HR guy.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Josh was still playing catcher up to the end of his career, his durability at the position is very unique considering the fact he was still winning batting average titles in 1945

But how long were Josh's seasons?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I'm going with Mike, we know what he did in MLB, too many assume what Josh might have done, no way to tell. Too many go by word of mouth, handed down stories and numbers that came in some exhibition games and against some poor pitching. I am certainly not saying that there were not some good and great black pitchers, I refer to the overall level of pitching in black baseball.

Do I believe some of the stories and opinions of those who saw Josh, I do. I believe this guy to be a terrific slugger, one that would have certainly left his mark in MLB had he been given the chance.

It's a sad story that because of skin color many baseball fans never got to see this great player play. Sad that the history of the game could have been greatly enhanced if he had his chance.

I can only go by the facts, what did take place, not what I or others believe would have taken place. I think Josh would have been one of the best, but I don't agree with those who throw these 500 and 600 and higher "might have been" numbers around, only specuation, no one really knows.

The fact that it was no fault of his own that he did not play MLB does not change the fact, the cold and unfair fact he did not play MLB and thats what I go by, it never happened, no way to know what might have been.

[Bill Burgess]

I seem to recall the the Negro Leagues only featured around 70-80 scheduled league games per season, but I'm probably wrong by a little. Most of the rest were barn-storming pick-up games, which might have involved better money. Can anyone help me out?

Bill Burgess

[jalbright]

The winter leagues were fairly strong, and they lasted 20-30 games. The seasons in the Negro Leagues were often in the 60-70 range to leave time for the more lucrative barnstorming opportunities. The Negro Leaguers might have played 200 times a year, but half were against opposition of widely varying quality.

Jim Albright

[Bill Burgess]

I believe I have read of some Negro Leaguers who played virtually all year round. Went to Cuba, Mexico. Don't know if many did it, but I read that some black ballplayers did play virtually year round.

Anyone else hear anything like that?

Bill Burgess