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Josh Gibson

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
    Ahhhhh...yes, the often mentioned Bill Terry .401 comparison. It's been thrown around quite a bit, and for good reason. The league DID hit for a high average that season.

    That's okay. The league hit .311 at home and .297 on the road.

    Terry hit .401 at home AND on the road that season. His OBP was higher on the road and slugging barely behind on the road. His 178 road to 160 home sOPS+ split is nice as well.

    For his career he's right there with Schmidt, McCovey, Greenberg and Stargell in Road Relative OPS+ (Yaz is about 20 points behind Terry).

    I don't put much into that 1930 season in the NL, easy to explain.
    One of the few times the NL owners admitted to changing the ball in 1930. Thinner cover, lower seams. Right off the season opener, pitchers complaining. The ball was harder to grip, difficult to get "stuff" on the ball.
    In 1931, the old ball was back and the NL came back to the real World.
    ---------Ba--------Home runs
    1930---.303--------892
    1931---.277-------493

    Hack Wilson, 56 home runs.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by jalbright View Post
      The reports of Gibson's catching prowess are positive, though they may be a bit overblown.
      I know someone who saw Gibson play many times at Dexter Park. He said Gibson would have rivaled the top power hitters had he played MLB, but his catching was adequate at best.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
        Dimaggio, to my knowledge, the only RH hitter to hit three homers in one game at Griffith. I think rather late in his career.
        But if I recall LF line was "only" 405-408 feet away at that time.

        I know Josh had a three homer game, not sure where. May have had more than one three homer game, but I recall seeing one article some years ago.

        Joe D hit 3 at Griffith on 9/10/50. I can't find where they went out.

        http://www.baseball-almanac.com/stadium/st_griff.shtml


        Assuming this is correct it was:

        Code:
                1911     1936    1950
        LF      407      402     386
        LC      391      391     372
        C       421      421     421
        RC      378      378     378
        R       328      328     328
        The LC number for 1950 looks funny. But it's correct. As you can see in the photo, the LF line is farther away than Left center. So, about 16-19 feet farther for Gibson in 1936-1943, and about 19-21 feet farther before 1936. What's really interesting is that Griffith has a low HR total, but right field looks relatively friendly for the 1930's.

        I can imagine that the RH splits home and away look more terrible than the totals. Of course, dimensions are only part of the story. Wind patterns, humidity, temperature, hitter's, background, etc. can make things easier or harder.

        On a side note, I might have gone to that stadium when I was a little bruiser since it was there until I was 8, but I can't remember enough details to be sure.


        Griffith hi shot 1950.jpg
        Last edited by drstrangelove; 02-17-2015, 01:55 AM.
        "It's better to look good, than be good."

        Comment


        • #64
          From Proquest, Washington Post. All three homers were to left field. In the article the first was hit farther than the second pictured here. No info on distance for the third homer. On that day, 4 for 4, three home runs and a double.
          Attached Files

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          • #65
            Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
            From Proquest, Washington Post. All three homers were to left field. In the article the first was hit farther than the second pictured here. No info on distance for the third homer. On that day, 4 for 4, three home runs and a double.
            That looked like a short porch to Joe compared to Death Valley in LCF at Yankee!!
            "If I drink whiskey, I'll never get worms!" - Hack Wilson

            Comment


            • #66
              These photos were published on January 25, 1947 five days after Gibson died.

              1947-01-25 The Afro American pg 16.jpg
              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

              Comment


              • #67
                This November 11, 1939 San Francisco Chronicle article mentions Gibson.

                1939-11-11 SF Chronicle pg 2H.jpg
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                  This November 11, 1939 San Francisco Chronicle article mentions Gibson.

                  [ATTACH]145982[/ATTACH]
                  I'm not sure where Lardner came up with the Cuban Giants engaging in double talk, but it's a myth that probably never happened. Their name evolved during the 1885 season and as far as I know nobody knows how it ended up as the Cuban Giants.

                  I'm surprised by Edwin Henderson's 19th Century picks to his All-Time Negro Hall of Fame. He omitted Frank Grant and Sol White and George Williams, but picked their teammates Andrew Jackson and Clarence Williams. He omitted some great pitchers such as Shep Trusty, George Stovey, Bill Selden, John Nelson, and Billy Whyte.
                  "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                  "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                    From Proquest, Washington Post. All three homers were to left field. In the article the first was hit farther than the second pictured here. No info on distance for the third homer. On that day, 4 for 4, three home runs and a double.
                    Great find!

                    410 feet would be deep into the left field bleachers. That one in the picture isn't though unless this one was close to straight center. And that's Bud (Eddie) Stewart, the LF going to his right, so who knows. Could be 390-395 feet if it's near the line. Maybe the signs on the walls still had the old distances or maybe the writer was using his memory of the distances pre-1950?

                    Still, with a left field line of 386 feet, none of those were easy pokes like in Fenway or down the line at Ebbets. Definitely solid blasts.
                    Last edited by drstrangelove; 02-21-2015, 12:40 PM.
                    "It's better to look good, than be good."

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Bumping this thread with a couple of posts from The Digs, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette photo blog, including rare photos of Josh from 1929-1930.


                      Josh with future wife Helen Mason at Ammon Field, 1929

                      Digs.JoshGibson005.jpg


                      Josh with unidentified men, circa 1930

                      Digs.JoshGibson002b.jpg

                      Digs.JoshGibson002-e1490990093901.jpg


                      http://newsinteractive.post-gazette....er-and-dancer/

                      http://newsinteractive.post-gazette....ittsburgh-guy/
                      A different classic baseball blog https://twitter.com/behindthebagbtb

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Leg Zep View Post
                        Gibson -- Greatest Long-Baller of them all (any league)


                        Anyway, as much as I dig Josh and his bis stick, he never hit the ball out of Yankee Stadium. The only book that states he did was "Only the Ball was White" but all other books about Josh and that era state he didn't. Even the old-timers who played with him say "they heard" he did it (to keep from actually killing the myth a la Babe Ruth Called Shot). It doesn't take away from his legend, thats for sure.

                        As for comparing Mike Piazza to Big Gib -- Mikey relies too much on his brute strength to crush the ball: Slow Eyes. But Piazza is a better battery than Josh (grant it, I wonder how Josh would've done had they discovered and treated his brain tumor in time -- no dizzy spells when catching fly balls).

                        Cheers,

                        Leg Zep
                        ​​​​​Piazza's glove work and ability to work with pitching staffs wasn't bad at all..in some ways he may be under appreciated. But as far as his throwing arm, I place him somewhere between Engelberg of the Bad News Bears, and Rube Baker from Major League II.

                        But as for his slugging ability, I don't see how he can be topped as far as catchers go. Now, I've seen Giancarlo Stanton hit multiple blasts at Coors Field deep into the last few rows of bleachers just to the left of center..measured in the 490's by hittrackeronline.com. Then there is the home run Piazza hit in the late 90's that cleared the bleachers just to the left of center, and landed on the concourse. Easily a legitimate 500' blast. Although I don't know if the stadium was deadening the balls via humidor at that point or not..but there is a video of all Stanton's shots at Coors, as well as Piazza's late 90's blast. I am seriously impressed by the distance of Piazza's shot it has to be around 520'!

                        I'd have to say I would take Josh Gibson over Piazza, as far as defense goes. Josh could play both corner infield positions as well as outfield. I also heard he had a nice throwing arm too.

                        I also heavily suspect Piazza to be a juicer..the stories of 'backne' and his bodybuilder stature..the way he emerged from low level draft pick to superstardom, hitting balls as far, if not further than McGwire. So I would have to say I will take a natural athlete like Gibson over Piazza. Nothing against people who were juiced..because their competition was also.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          The story of back acne was from ONE person. Pizza was never built like a bodybuilder. Piazza was tall but not heavily muscled IMO. As a 17 year old he was already 6'3". As for being drafted that was a complete misjudgment and failure of baseball teams. Piazza should have been drafted around the 20th round or so. Ted Williams met a 16 year Pizza and after watching Piazza swing in a batting cage Williams immediately told a Dodger scout that was with him that he (Williams) would Pizza ASAP. Piazza was a naturally talented hitter from a young age.

                          A while back we had this long thread about Piazza vs Gibson.

                          https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum...vs-josh-gibson


                          Here is Piazza's high school scouting report.

                          Piazza Scouting.jpg
                          Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 08-28-2017, 01:44 PM.
                          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I think Josh Gibson's career, as much as maybe anyone besides Satchel, will never really be able to be judged accurately in any context with "Organized MLB" due to the erratic nature of scheduling and recordkeeping during his career. I've read different stories estimating he had over 800 homers in his career and others saying only a couple hundred can be documented.

                            Problem is the Negro League teams did not play 154 league games, they played maybe 80 league games and about as many "exhibition" games, many against semipro opponents. So not only do you have the problem of trying to compare Negro League stats to MLB, but then you also have to compare barnstorming competition to established leagues.

                            But there is certainly a widespread opinion he had power ability ranking with the best of his time period. I think I've read several articles comparing him to Jimmie Foxx, who was also a (part-time) catcher early in his career, who had a similar body type (6-1, 195 to 220).
                            Last edited by StarStar00; 10-03-2017, 02:54 PM.

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