Is a fair comparison with Negro League players European NBA players?

[PVNICK]

This isn't meant as a backhanded race question. It just struck me in reading the revived Satchel Paige thread that both produce a lot of top level players but relatively few below that. The main stumbling block in comparing league quality (which is what this is about for me) is that you would have to go back to pre-Berlin Wall coming down to find basketball in a state where there was no free flow of talent just like the color barrier worked in baseball. Anyway it's just a thought, and a superficial one at that. I'm curious to hear other opinions even if just on league quality absent my basketball analogy.

[jalbright]

The Negro Leagues are really tough to compare to anything. They were struggling to survive most of the time, and often made more money in barnstorming ( i.e., non-league) games than they did in their leagues. Pitching Satch 3 innings a game in barnstorming and season games was a better way to make money than starting him every 3-4 days and going the distance. There's just no parallel for that. It means the leagues were funky to our way of thinking, as league games weren't always the most important games to the team. Also, with 13-15 man rosters the norm, there were all kinds of situations with guys playing less than optimal positions. Catchers couldn't catch every day barnstorming and in the leagues, so they often played OF, 1B or 3B. Pitchers couldn't pitch every day, so position players with good arms pitched on occasion. Good teams amassed good lineups because pay was often a portion of the gate, and good teams sold more tickets. Bad teams went under, to be replaced by someone trying to get another team going. Also, players like Satch who were in demand often went from team to team, following the money. Probably the best analogies would be in the 19th century, except that the rules of the game were standardized by then, and pitchers couldn't pitch as many innings from 60 feet 6 inches as they could from shorter distances.

[PVNICK]

The Negro Leagues are really tough to compare to anything. They were struggling to survive most of the time, and often made more money in barnstorming ( i.e., non-league) games than they did in their leagues. Pitching Satch 3 innings a game in barnstorming and season games was a better way to make money than starting him every 3-4 days and going the distance. There's just no parallel for that. It means the leagues were funky to our way of thinking, as league games weren't always the most important games to the team. Also, with 13-15 man rosters the norm, there were all kinds of situations with guys playing less than optimal positions. Catchers couldn't catch every day barnstorming and in the leagues, so they often played OF, 1B or 3B. Pitchers couldn't pitch every day, so position players with good arms pitched on occasion. Good teams amassed good lineups because pay was often a portion of the gate, and good teams sold more tickets. Bad teams went under, to be replaced by someone trying to get another team going. Also, players like Satch who were in demand often went from team to team, following the money. Probably the best analogies would be in the 19th century, except that the rules of the game were standardized by then, and pitchers couldn't pitch as many innings from 60 feet 6 inches as they could from shorter distances.

After I posted this, I read someone referencing negro leagues having shady owners and irregular. I was immediately reminded of the description of the pre-1890s baseball in the Billy Hamiltoon bio I am reading.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

You can see through history the evolution and improved quality of international basketball. Basketball became an Olympic sport in 1936. The US dominated for several Olympics. By the late 1960's the gap had been significantly reduced. The 1972 gold medal game is still a highly controversial game. What gets lost is that the Soviet Union led for most of the game. The US took the lead at the very end then all that craziness happened with the Soviets winning the gold. By then other nations knew they could keep up with the Americans.

By the 1980's NBA teams started to see untapped talent in Europe. Arvydas Sabonis was a revelation to NBA scouts. His size, skill, strength and feel for the game was off the charts. Sabonis broke many of the Portland Trailblazers' team strength records. I always wonders what Sabonis could have really done if he didn't suffer that nasty Achilles tendon rupture early in his career. He was never the same after that.