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  • #31
    MAX MANNING
    NEGRO LEAGUES
    &#xtm; wat/ tm avg tm
    YEAR LG TEAM W L pct dec WAT dec dec decs in lg
    1939 NNL NWK 4 4 .500 18% -1.4 -.18 45 33
    1940 NNL NWK 14 7 .667 39% 2.5 .12 54 57
    1941 NNL NWK 5 2 .714 21% .9 .12 34 41
    1942 NNL NWK 6 7 .462 27% -.9 -.07 49 41
    1946 NNL NWK 13 1 .929 18% 2.4 .17 76 52
    1947 NNL NWK 15 6 .714 27% 4.5 .21 79 60
    1948 NNL NWK 10 4 .714 100% 0.0 .00 14 37
    TOTAL 67 31 .684 28% 8.0 .08 351 321

    As I recollect, Manning served two or three years in the war, but I'm not sure about that.

    Also, someone please correct me if I have the facts wrong, but I think he might have played minor league ball, but he hurt his arm which ruined his big-league aspirations. 3. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: July 11, 2005 at 01:48 PM (#1463917)
    At lunch I was able to gather a little more info from Holway, Riley, and Cisneros.

    1) Manning was indeed drafted and served 1943-1945.

    2) Riley says he pitched in Cuba from 1946-1949, I assume he means in the CWL. He then spent 1950 in Venezuala in Maricaoba.

    3) He finished off his career by pitching two seasons in Mexico, 1951 and 1953.

    He went a combined 5-9 in 131.33 innings, sporting ERAs of 3.02 and 4.27 in the two seasons. His H, BB, and K rates seem pretty respectable given the league's propensity to high hit rates and low K/BB rates.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #32
      Oliver Marcelle Data

      Expert Assessments
      Selected by 80% of experts polled in _Cool Papas_ for HoF
      BJ -- #3 Third Baseman, behind Ray Dandridge and Judy Johnson
      Holway -- #3 Third Baseman, behind Jud Wilson and Ray Dandridge; selected as all-star four times by Holway

      From Riley

      .305 lifetime Negro-League Average
      1919, 1921-29 seasonal avgs. .229, .305, .364, .295, .343, .308, .255, .306, .296, .288
      .305 lifetime Cuban Winter League average (8 seasons)

      From Holway

      Negro-League Data
      1918 .111 for Bkn Royal Giants
      1919 .462 (20-50) for Bkn Royal Giants; Holway all-star
      1920 .323 for AC Bacharach Giants; Holway all-star
      1921 .299 for AC Bacharach Giants; Holway all-star
      6-15, .400 in playoff vs. Hilldale
      1922 .265 for AC Bacharach Giants
      6 –24, .250 in World Series vs. Chi Am Giants
      1923, .306 for NY Lincoln Giants
      1924 .316 for NY Lincoln Giants
      1925 .321 for AC Bacharach Giants, .174 for NY Lincoln Giants
      1926 .288 for AC Bacharach Giants
      12-36 in World Series vs. Chi Am Giants
      1927 .326 for AC Bacharach Giants; Holway all-star
      8-34, .235 in World Series vs. Chi Am Giants
      1928 .288 for AC Bacharach Giants
      1929 .288 for Balt Black Sox
      1930 .308 for Bkn Royal Giants

      Career Data
      .302, 723-2391

      Cuban Data
      1923 .393 to lead winter league
      1924 .310 (39-126)
      1925 .333 (26-78)
      1927 .336 (40-119)
      1929 .241 (38-158)

      Vs. Major League Competition
      1920 1-4 vs. Babe Ruth all-stars (Carl Mays and Ruth pitch)
      1921 8-19 vs. Phil Athletics
      1929 2-13 vs. All-Star squad (Phil A’s pitchers minus Grove plus Balt Orioles of IL)
      career 11-36, .306
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #33
        Luis Marquez

        Here's the raw stats for Marquez

        ngl
        YEAR LG TM AGE PO TMG G AB H TB 2B 3B HR SB BB K AVG SLG
        -------------------------------------------------------------------
        1945 nnl nyc 19 of 26
        1946 nnl 2tm 20 of 22 81 25 31 3 0 1 3 .309 .383
        1947 nnl hom 21 of 250 96 134 15 5 .384 .535
        1948 nnl hom 22 of 39 35 52 .298 .407

        international league
        1949 il nwk 23 of 153 18 69 17 23 3 0 1 3 7 5 .246 .333

        pacific coast league
        1949 pcl por 23 of 187 132 511 150 202 26 7 4 32 40 76 .294 .395
        1950 pcl por 24 of 200 194 775 241 347 41 19 9 38 64 98 .311 .448
        1955 pcl por 29 of 172 112 381 119 169 24 1 8 5 24 67 .312 .444
        1956 pcl por 30 of 168 155 602 207 329 27 10 25 18 43 77 .344 .547
        1957 pcl por 31 of 168 167 610 169 305 31 6 31 13 47 69 .277 .500
        1958 pcl por 32 of 109 335 89 138 13 6 8 2 .266 .412

        american association
        1952 aa mil 26 of 154 136 521 180 280 38 10 14 24 51 91 .346 .537
        1953 aa tol 27 of 154 130 510 149 222 28 3 13 37 .292 .435
        1954 aa tol 28 of 154 58 229 76 120 18 1 8 7 .332 .524
        1955 aa tol 29 of 154 21 75 18 32 6 1 2 0 .240 .427
        1959 aa dal 33 of 154 142 510 176 262 24 4 18 14 .345 .514
        1960 aa dal 34 of 154 144 469 124 169 30 3 3 6 .264 .360
        1961 aa dal 35 of 154 18 43 9 14 3 1 0 0 .209 .326

        eastern league
        1961 el wms 35 of 154 19 54 14 20 1 1 1 1 .259 .370

        mexican league
        1962 mxl pzr 36 of 130 126 460 164 263 28 4 21 9 58 47 .357 .572
        1963 mxl pzr 37 of 134 118 401 126 211 19 3 20 8 43 63 .314 .526

        prwl
        1945 prw agu 19 of 40 175 10 .298 .576
        1946 prw agu 20 of 60 224 78 27 14 27 .348 .684
        1947 prw agu 21 of 59 65 20 .296 .482
        1948 prw agu 22 of 80 108 29 .379 .618
        1949 prw agu 23 of 78 233 73 10 23 .313 .572
        1951 prw sj 25 of 72 275 73 3 8 23 .266 .441
        1952 prw sj 26 of 72 288 88 3 .306 .438
        1953 prw may 27 of 80 282 94 5 32 .333 .497
        1954 prw may 28 of 72 165 60 10 5 28 .364 .667
        1955 prw pon 29 of 72 191 47 74 12 3 3 5 .246 .387
        1956 prw may 30 of 72 256 70 111 12 1 9 11 .273 .434
        1957 prw pon 31 of 64 62 209 65 121 15 7 9 5 .311 .579
        1958 prw pon 32 of 64 63 220 68 111 14 4 7 4 .309 .505
        1959 prw pon 33 of 62 56 173 44 71 10 1 5 5 .254 .410
        1960 prw pon 34 of 64 41 79 17 25 6 1 0 3 .215 .317
        1961 prw pon 35 of 80 12 12 1 2 1 0 0 0 .083 .167

        nl
        1951 nl bos 25 of 154 68 122 24 31 5 1 0 4 10 20 .197 .254
        1954 nl 2tm 28 of 154 31 21 1 1 0 0 0 3 2 4 .083 .048
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #34
          First, here's Matlock's data from Holway and Riley.

          Leroy Matlock Data

          From Riley

          Born March 12, 1907

          Teams: St. Louis Stars, 1929-31, Detroit/Homestead/Washington 1932, Pittsburgh Crawfords 1933-38, Santa Domingo 1937, Venezuela 1939, Mexico 1940-1942, New York Cubans 1942

          Seasonal Data from Holway

          1929 5-2, team 70-26, #5 in team decisons, -0.1 WAT
          1930 10-3, #3 in league in wp, team 68-24, #2 in team dec. (tie), 0.5 WAT
          1931 1-3, team 23-17, #5 in team dec., -1.4 WAT
          1932 4-1 for Homestead (team 64-28), 2-5 for Was (team 16-35), 0.4 WAT
          1933 11-4, 4th in wins, 4th in wp, 4th in TRA, 4th in K, team 49-31, #3 in team dec., 2.2 WAT, all-star
          1934 14-3, 3rd in wins, 2nd in wp, 5 in K, team 63-22, #3 in team dec., 1.8 WAT
          1935 17-0, 1st in wins, 1st in wp, 1st in TRA, team 47-17, #1 in team dec., 6.1 WAT, all-star, GSA
          1936 9-3, 3rd in wins, 3rd in wp, 1st in TRA, team 39-27, #2 in team dec., 2.3 WAT
          (Note, all his dec. came in the first half of the season. Pitched a lot then, and not at all thereafeter. Holway says he doesn’t know the reason, but Riley has him playing on a black all-star team that entered and won the Denver Post tournament.)
          1937 4-1 in S.D., no team data, 1-0 for Pgh, team 12-16, 0.6 WAT
          1938 3-7, team 24-18, #2 in team dec., -3.6 WAT
          1939 No Data: in Venezuela
          1940 15-10, 3.27 ERA, 101 K in Mexico
          1941 15-7 in Mexico
          1942 9-13 in Mexico, no data for NY Cubans

          Career
          77-31, .713 in NeL competition
          4-1 in Santa Domingo
          39-30 in Mexico

          Yes, Matlock pitched one season in Cuba, 1938-39, splitting his time among two teams and going 6-8. With pennant-winning Santa Clara he was a teammate of Josh Gibson, Ray Brown, Sam Bankhead, Manuel García, and Lázaro Salazar. With third-place Cuba he was a teammate of Bill Holland, Ray Dandridge, and Bill Perkins.
          Yr Team G CG W L Tm W Tm L Tm Pct Pennant WAT % tm dec
          38-39 Santa Clara 8 3 2 4 34 20 .630 * -2.0 11%
          38-39 Cuba 10 4 4 4 25 29 .463 0.3 15%
          38-39 Total 18 7 6 8 -1.7
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #35
            Jose Mendez's placements on career NgL leaderboards are truncated to only 1920-1948 at this this time.

            WINS t-113th with 26 wins

            LOSSES t-247th with 9

            DEICISIONS t-159th with 35

            WINNING PCT .743
            (50+ decisions minimum) DNQ
            (25+ decisions minimum) 5th
            (10+ decisions minimum) 13th

            ADJ PCT OF TEAM DECISIONS .064
            (50+ decisions minimum) DNQ
            (25+ decisions minimum) 205th (out of 205)
            (10+ decisions minimum) 325th (of 335)

            WAT 68th with 3.5

            WAT/DECISION .099
            (50+ decisions minimum) DNQ
            (25+ decisions minimum) 32nd
            (10+ decisions minimum) 58th

            YEARLY WINS LEADERBOARD APPEARANCES

            1923 t-4th in wins with 12.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #36
              Here's all the data on Bill Monroe from Holway and Riley.

              Monroe
              1903 3-11 vs. Cuban X-Giants in 7-game playoff
              1904 0-7 vs. Cuban X-Giants in 3-game playoff
              1905 2-8 vs. Brooklyn Royal Giants in 3-game playoff
              1906 listed as hitting .500 for Brooklyn Royal Giants in possibly 4 documented games
              1906 18-51 in Cuban Play
              1907 23-77 in Cuban Play
              1908 11-47 in Cuban Play
              1908 2-4 vs. Cincinnati Reds in Cuba (and Royal Giants win their game against Reds)
              1909 6-8 vs. unidentified competition
              1910 .171, no games or ab listed for Brooklyn Royal Giants
              1911 11-37 vs. black & Cuban teams
              1912 .208 no games or ab listed for Chicago American Giants
              1913 .268 no games or ab listed for Chicago American Giants
              1914 .239 no games or ab listed for Chicago American Giants

              Totals
              52-175 .297 in Cuban Play
              22-71.310 in "negro-league" play
              2-4 vs. major league competition

              76-250 .304 total

              Riley lists a .333 average for Monroe in Cuban in 1908, and a .348 average for Monroe against all competition in 1914.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #37
                Dobie Moore Data
                Nickname “The Black Cat”

                From Riley
                “a superb fielder with outstanding range and a terrific arm”
                1924 hit .453, led league in doubles, with 10 hr and .694 slugging %
                Played ball in the army for the 25th Infantry team
                1920-21 hit .274 and .264
                1922 hit .385
                1923 hit .365
                1925 hit .325
                1926 hit .381 in partial season before his career-ending injury

                .365 lifetime avg.
                .356 avg. in Cuban Play

                Holway Data

                Seasonal Totals
                1920 .306 for KC Monarchs; Holway all-star
                6-14 (.429) vs. major-league competition
                1921 .372 for KC Monarchs; Holway all-star appx. 242 ab so 90 hits, 11 HR (5th in league), 19 doubles (3 in league) est. 5 triples for a .628 slugging percentage (home ball park was a hitters park, 3 of top 6 in HR were Monarchs)
                1922 .406 for KC Monarchs (4th in league and 4th on Monarchs!); Holway all star; appx. 360 ab so 146 hits, 17 HR (3rd in league), 22 doubles (4th in league), est. 5 triples for a .636 slugging percentage.
                2-4 vs. major-league competition
                1923 .315 for KC Monarchs; Holway all star
                .386 in Cuban Play
                1924 .356 for KC Monarchs; Holway all star; in appx. 306 ab, so 109 hits, 18 HR, (4th in league), 24 doubles (1st in league), 9 triples (4th in league), for slugging % of .670
                12-49 in World Series vs. Hilldale
                1925 .333 for KC Monarchs; Holway all star, 25 doubles, 13 triples (2nd & 1st in league, respectively)
                4-29 in playoff vs. St. Louis
                8-22 in World Series vs. Hilldale

                Career Totals
                12-38 vs. major-league competition
                50 HR in 1760 career at bats (15/550 AB)
                625-1760 (.355) lifetime against negro-league competition
                top three seasons hit .380 and slugged .645

                Career Stats from MacMillan:
                NAME Moore, Dobie
                G 357
                AB 1393
                H 509
                2B 88
                3B 39
                HR 41
                SB 31
                AVG 0.365
                SA 0.573
                POS SS
                YR 7

                Career Stats from MacMillan:
                NAME Moore, Dobie
                G 357
                AB 1393
                H 509
                2B 88
                3B 39
                HR 41
                SB 31
                AVG 0.365
                SA 0.573
                POS SS
                YR 7

                CUBAN WINTER LEAGUE STATISTICS:

                YEAR AB R H 2B 3B HR BA SA (REGULAR SEASON)
                1923-24 184 28 71 9 6 1 .386 .516 Santa Clara

                YEAR AB R H SB BA (SPECIAL SEASON)
                1923-24 97 10 29 1

                TOTAL BA .356 (H 100/AB 281)

                CALIFORNIA WINTER LEAGUE STATISTICS:
                1920-21 34 139 46 7 6 1 .331
                1921-22 22 80 22 4 3 0 .275
                1924-25 40 158 77 17 4 12 .487

                TOTALS:
                G 96 AB 377 H 145
                2B 28 3B 13 HR 13
                BA .385 SA .631
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Here is the Cuban League record of Alejandro Oms.

                  Year Team AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB Avg
                  1922-23 Santa Clara 94 26 41 7 3 0 -- 7 .436
                  1923-24 Santa Clara 139 33 53 7 4 2 -- -- .381
                  1924w(S) Santa Clara 76 7 22 -- -- -- -- 0 .289
                  1924-25 Santa Clara 145 32 57 13 4 1 -- 3 .393
                  1925-26 San José 68 10 22 7 2 0 -- 2 .324
                  1926-27 Cuba 18 5 9 2 0 0 -- 1 .500
                  1926-27(T) Marianao 101 28 37 -- -- -- -- -- .366
                  1927-28 Habana 71 11 23 3 2 3 -- 1 .324
                  1928-29 Habana 176 38 76 18 6 1 -- 5 .432
                  1929-30 Santa Clara 166 37 63 9 4 5 -- -- .380
                  1930f Santa Clara 7 1 2 0 0 0 -- -- .286
                  1930f(S) Habana 55 7 10 0 0 0 -- 2 .182
                  1931-32 Habana 113 28 44 8 3 3 17 14 .389
                  1932-33 Habana 57 13 21 4 0 0 12 4 .368
                  1933-34 Season not held
                  1934-35 Did not play
                  1935-36 Santa Clara 180 38 56 10 3 2 30 -- .311
                  1936-37 Did not play
                  1937-38 Santa Clara 92 22 29 2 0 2 19 1 .315
                  1938-39 Did not play
                  1939-40 Almendares 101 15 23 2 0 0 9 5 .228
                  1940-41 Almendares/Habana 166 22 39 4 2 0 12 5 .235
                  1945-46 Cienfuegos 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
                  Totals 1826 373 627 96 33 19 99 50 .343*
                  * Figueredo lists his career average as .345.

                  Notes:
                  1922-23 - Santa Clara withdrew mid-way through season in protest of a league decision, forfeiting 27 games. Consequently, Charleston (.446) and Oms (.436) didn't qualify for batting championship (Baró, .401)
                  1923-24 - This Santa Clara team is widely considered the greatest in Cuban League history. Season ended early after team went 36-11, 11.5 games ahead of their nearest rival.
                  1924w(S) - Special season after regular season ended early.
                  1924-25 - Led league in average, tied for lead in doubles (with Torriente).
                  1925-26 - San José withdrew early after going 3-16, forfeiting 25 games.
                  1926-27(T) - An independent, rival league (Triangular) was formed and signed most of the better players.
                  1928-29 - Led league in average, setting all-time Cuban League record for highest batting avg (min. 100 AB). Record for most consecutive games hitting safely (30). Tied record for most hits in a game (6). Also led league in at-bats, hits, and doubles.
                  1929-30 - Led league in average. Record for most consecutive seasons batting .300 or better (8).
                  1930f - Season ended after 5 games due to a contract dispute over the stadium.
                  1930f(S) - Special season after regular season ended early.
                  1931-32 - Led league in runs, hits, and stolen bases. Tied for lead in home runs.
                  1932-33 - Led league in doubles.
                  1937-38 - Tied record for most times batting .300 or better in a career (11).

                  Oms ranked 5th all-time in runs, 10th in doubles, 8th in triples, 2nd in career average (behind Torriente).

                  Alejandro Oms data

                  DoB, from Riley, March 13, 1895

                  Teams, from Riley: 1917 Cuban Stars East, 1921 All Cubans, 1922-32 Cuban Stars East, 1935 NY Cubans

                  Seasonal data from Holway

                  1917 .114; lf
                  1921 no data
                  1922 no ba data; cf (listed with Cuban Stars, but no batting average available)
                  1923 .349 (#4 in league); cf, all-star
                  1924 .281; cf
                  1925 .376, 14 hr (3rd in league), 32 hr/550 ab (3rd in league); lf [should have been named all-star by Holway, but wasn’t]
                  1926 .321; cf
                  1927 .287; cf
                  1928 .362, 11 2b (4th in league); rf
                  1929 no data (team listed, but not Oms)
                  1930 .320; cf, all-star
                  1931 .118; cf
                  1932 no data (Cuban Stars not listed in Holway)
                  1935 .396 (3rd in league), 13 2b (2nd in league); lf [should have been named all-star]

                  Career data from Holway
                  432-1308, .330
                  33 hr, 13 hr/550 ab
                  black ink/gray ink 0/19
                  mean avg. for 10 recorded seasons, .292

                  Career data from Macmillan 10th
                  247 g, 913 ab, 279 hits, 66 2b, 15 3b, 29 hr, .306 ba, .506 sa

                  There are significant discrepancies between the two career records, obviously.
                  Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                  Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                  A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Satchel Paige Data

                    From Riley

                    Born July 7, 1906

                    Teams: Birmingham Black Barons (1927-30), Baltimore Black Sox (1930), Cleveland Cubs (1931), Pittsburgh Crawfords (1931-37), Bismarck semi-pro team 1935, Santa Domingo 1937, Mexican League 1938, Kansas City Monarchs (1935-36, 1939-48, 1950), Cleveland Indians (1948-49), St. Louis Browns (1951-53). Appeared also with NY Black Yankees and Memphis Red Sox (1943), and the Philadelphia Stars (1946, 1950)

                    Seasonal Data from Holway

                    1927 8-3, .738 wp 2nd in league. 4th in team dec. 2.0 WAT
                    1928 13-4, 5th in wins, .765 wp 4th, 3.06 TRA 2nd, 112 K 2nd. 3rd in team dec. 6.2 WAT
                    1929 11-11, 194 K 1st. 1st in team dec. (tie). 4.3 WAT
                    1930 9-4, 3.07 TRA 3rd. 4th in team dec. 3.4 WAT
                    1931 6-3 for Clv., 1-2 for Pgh. 2.0 WAT Clv, -0.8 WAT Pgh, 1.2 WAT total
                    1932 21-9, 1st in wins, .700 wp 4th, 2.79 TRA 2nd, 113 K 1st. 1st in team dec. 4.5 WAT
                    1933 7-9, 3.50 TRA 5th, 69 K 1st. 2nd in team dec., -3.5 WAT.
                    1934 20-5, 2nd in wins, .800 wp 3rd, 1.84 TRA 1st, 134 K 1st. GSA. 1st in team dec., 2.1 WAT
                    1935 In Bismarck
                    1936 11-3, 1st in wins, .786 wp 1st, 3.15 TRA 4th, 68 K 1st, GSA, all-star. 1st in team dec., 3.5 WAT
                    1937 8-2 in Santa Domingo
                    1938 0-1 in Mexico in 3 games (arm trouble develops)
                    1939 pitching for KC Monarchs “B” Team (minor-league equivalent)
                    19-3 in Puerto Rican winter league (1st in wins, 3rd in TRA, 1st in K)
                    1940 2-0. Not in top 5 dec., 0.4 WAT
                    1941 7-0, 2nd in wins, 1st in wp, 2.11 TRA 3rd, 1st in K. 2nd in team dec., 1.8 WAT
                    1942 7-5, 3rd in wins, 1.95 TRA 3rd (in league & on team), 42 K 1st. 1st in team dec. –2.7 WAT
                    1943 9-15 for KC, 1-0 for Mem., 3rd in wins, 71 K 1st. 1st in team dec., -5.1 WAT
                    1944 5-6. 1st in team dec., 0.2 WAT
                    1945 5-9. 1st in team dec., -3.8 WAT
                    1946 5-1. 1.32 TRA 1st in league, 27 K 3rd. 4th in team dec., 0.6 WAT
                    1947 1-1. Not in top 5 dec., -0.6 WAT
                    1948-49 in majors
                    1950 No data
                    1951-53 in majors

                    Career Totals
                    147-88, .626 adding numbers above
                    147-92, .630 according to Holway (147-92 is a .615 wp, of course)
                    14.5 WAT (was 23.7 WAT from 1927-1936)

                    A more complex career record than the legend would suggest. Not that it matters that much, I suppose. He has enough value from 1927 to 1937 to merit induction. I'd like to have a more exact account of how Satchel was being used and against whom in the 1940s. His w-l record from those years is not impressive, and his WAT are poor, but he was leading his team in decisions. Was he pitching too much because he was the gate attraction? Was he facing the best pitcher on his opponents' teams every time? (eventually, someone did document that he was doing so to an inordinate degree-ED) Or was Satchel's image just far better than his actual talent during these years?

                    The following is Paige's Negro League career according to Holway's book *Josh and Satch.* It's clearly based on a less complete set of data than the *complete Book*, but I thought the details about walks, strikeouts, complete games, TRA, and so on would help to fill in gaps. (Note the small differences between this and my compilation of the 1928 season above.)

                    Code:
                    Yr W-L TRA G GS CG IP H BB SO
                    27 8-3 3.27 20 9 6 93 63 19 80
                    28 12-4 3.07 26 16 10 120 107 19 112
                    29 11-11 5.28 31 20 15 196 191 39 184
                    30 11-4 2.84 18 13 12 120 92 15 86
                    31 5-5 4.47 12 6 5 60 36 4 23
                    32 14-8 3.79 29 23 19 181 92 13 109
                    33 5-7 3.68 13 12 10 95 39 10 57
                    34 13-3 1.99 20 17 15 154 85 21 97
                    35 0-0 0.00 2 2 0 7 0 0 10
                    36 7-2 2.70 9 9 9 70 54 11 59
                    37 1-2 3.46 3 3 2 26 22 6 11
                    40 1-1 4.50 2 2 2 12 10 ? 15
                    41 7-1 2.21 13 11 3 67 38 6 61
                    42 8-5 2.88 20 18 6 100 68 12 78
                    43 5-9 4.26 24 20 4 88 80 16 54
                    44 5-5 1.28 13 ?? ? 78 47 8 70
                    45 3-5 ??? 13 7 1 38 22 2 23
                    46 5-1 ??? 9 9 1 68 65 12 48
                    47 1-1 1.64 2 2 2 11 5 ? ??
                    50 1-2 5.88 8 ? ? 26 28 ? ??
                    
                    PITCHERS OVER 40:
                    RSAA                           RSAA      IP       N_W      N_L    
                    1    Hoyt Wilhelm                100    744         62       26   
                    2    Jack Quinn                   95   1205.1       87       64   
                    3    Cy Young                     44    883.2       60       39   
                    4    Nolan Ryan                   43   1060         61       52   
                    5    Satchel Paige                40    476         35       24   
                    6    Ted Lyons                    35    223         18        7   
                    7    Roger Clemens                32    214.1       15        7   
                    8    Red Faber                    29    545         36       29   
                    9    Dutch Leonard                28    286         19       12   
                    T10  Doug Jones                   18    262.2       14       12   
                    T10  Connie Marrero               18    396         23       20
                    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 01-02-2007, 06:44 AM.
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Bruce Petway data

                      Summary of Expert Evaluations

                      HF% Career Name-pos (born) BJ – MVP - All-Star
                      44% 06-25 Bruce Petway-C (1883) #5 c - 1 - 7*

                      From Holway

                      1906 – no batting data, played for Chicago Leland Giants
                      1907 – no batting data, played for Philadelphia Giants
                      1907 – 6-33 (.182) for Phil Giants in Cuba
                      1908 – 3-22 (.137) in world series for Phil Giants vs. Leland Giants
                      1909 -- .150 for Phil Giants (teammates listed with 20-22 ab) mostly in series vs. Leland Giants
                      1909 – 2-10 vs. major-league all-star team in Cuba
                      1910 – 13-30 (.433) for Chicago Leland Giants; Holway all-star
                      1910 – 6-41 for Leland Giants in Cuba
                      1910 – 5-23 vs. Tigers and Athletics in Cuba
                      1911 -- .238 for Chicago American Giants (teammates listed with 32 & 37 ab); Holway all-star
                      1911 – 16-96 (.167) in Cuban Play
                      1912 -- .200 for Chi Am Giants (teammates listed with 96 & 112 ab)
                      1913 -- .262 for Chi Am Giants (teammates listed with 95, 150, 152 ab)
                      1914 -- .311 for Chi Am Giants (no ab data available); Holway all-star
                      1915 -- .182 for Chi Am Giants (no ab data available)
                      1915 – 18-51 (.353) in Cuban Play
                      1916 -- .189 for Chi Am Giants (no ab data available)
                      1917 -- .136 for Chi Am Giants (no ab data, listed as “ut” not “c” by Holway)
                      1917 – 5-19 in world series for Chi Am Giants vs. NY Lincoln Stars
                      1918 -- .235 for Chi Am. Giants (no ab data listed); Holway all-star
                      1919 -- .209 for Detroit Stars (no ab data listed, listed as “of” by Holway)
                      1920 -- .193 for Detroit Stars (no ab data listed)
                      1921 -- .310 for Detroit Stars (no ab data listed); Holway all-star
                      1922 -- .244 for Detroit Stars
                      1923 -- .320 for Detroit Stars; Holway all-star
                      1923 – 2-8 vs. St. Louis Browns
                      1924 -- .324 for Detroit Stars (listed as “ut” by Holway); Holway all-star
                      1925 – not listed as playing

                      totals derived from Holway
                      46-221 (.208) in Cuban Play
                      9-46 (.196) vs. white major-leaguers
                      .226 mean average, 1907-1924

                      From Riley
                      1910 -- .397 vs. all competition for Leland Giants
                      1914-16 – missed substantial time due to injuries
                      1916 – 1918 hit .253, .208, .200 (vs. all competition?)
                      1916 -- .333 in Cuba
                      1921-25 in Detroit hit .313, .268, .337, .341, .156

                      Riley lists him as hitting .210 in Cuba, lifetime
                      .171 avg. vs. major-leaguers in exhibitions
                      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Spotswood Poles

                        Brent Posted: October 22, 2005 at 02:11 AM (#1697684)
                        Spottswood Poles played four winters in the Cuban League: 1910-11, 1912w, 1913w,
                        and 1914-15. (The winter of 1913-14 no North Americans played in Cuba.) Here is
                        his record:
                        Season Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR SB Avg Slg
                        10-11 Fe 26 89 20 32 5 0 0 - .360 .416
                        12w Fe 23 86 10 22 1 2 0 11 .256 .314
                        13w Fe - 151 40 55 3 8 1 21 .364 .510
                        14-15 Fe 14 57 9 13 0 2 0 4 .228 .298
                        Total 383 79 122 9 12 1 .319 .413


                        Notes:
                        During these four years the Cuban League consisted of only three teams. Most
                        of the top black American stars of the time played in Cuba at least some of
                        those winters.
                        1910-11: Poles led league in doubles; was second in average and slugging behind
                        Pete Hill.
                        1913w: Poles led league in at-bats, runs, hits, triples, and slugging. His team
                        (Fe) won the pennant.

                        As Gary has reminded us, offensive context is important, so I’ve calculated the
                        offensive context from the statistics shown in Figueredo’s Cuban Baseball: A
                        Statistical History, 1878-1961. These batting statistics follow Figueredo in
                        excluding most pitchers. (Apparently pitchers batting records are included if
                        they also played in the field, so the batting records for Méndez and Pedroso are
                        included.) In 1910-11 the ball was still quite dead, but it became more lively
                        in the following seasons:
                        Season Lg Avg Lg Slg
                        10-11 .224 .270
                        12w .255 .314
                        13w .276 .336
                        14-15 .266 .313

                        Spotswood Poles Data

                        Summary of expert rankings

                        HF% Career Name-pos (born) BJ – MVP - All-Star
                        52% 09-23 Spotswood Poles-CF (1889) #4 cf - 3 - 3*

                        Note that his all-star count from Holway is probably too low as Holway did not name an east all-star team in 1909 or 1912, both seasons in which Poles might well have been named.

                        From Holway

                        1909 – .263 for Philadelphia Giants no ab listed, but 3 teammates listed with 20 and 22 so I estimate 5-19)
                        1910 – 14-42 for Phil Giants (his .333 avg. is 4th best in the East); Holway all-star
                        1910 – 32-89 (.360) in Cuban Play (2nd best in league; Pete Hill best at .365)
                        1911 -- .268 for NY Lincoln Giants (3 teammates listed with 37, 48, and 50 ab, so I estimate 12-45)
                        1911 – 22-86 (.258) in Cuban play; HR Johnson wins batting title with .410 clip; Hill is 3rd listed at .284.
                        1912 – 12-34 (.308) for NY Lincoln Giants and one game for Brooklyn Royal Giants
                        1912 – 0-4 vs. a Giants/Highlanders ML team
                        1912 – 55-151 (.364) in Cuban play; wins batting title
                        1913 – 39-130 (.300) for NY Lincoln Giants; teammates Johnson and Lloyd hit .382 and .325; Holway all star
                        1913 – 10-15 vs. Pete Alexander and Walter Johnson
                        1914 -- .481 for NY Lincoln Giants (no ab listed); Holway all star
                        1914 – 16-52 (.306) for Lincolns touring Cuba
                        1914 – 13-57 (.228) in Cuban play
                        1915 -- .255 for NY Lincoln Stars (4 teammates listed with 50, 50, 65, & 79 ab, so I estimate 14-55)
                        1915 – 5-13 vs. NY Giants and Philadelphia Phillies
                        1916 -- .185 for NY Lincoln Giants (no ab listed)
                        1916 – 6-15 in winter ball in Florida
                        1917 -- .265 for NY Lincoln Giants (no ab listed)
                        1917 – 4-12 vs. Joe Bush all-star team
                        1918 – Military Service, earned 5 battle stars and a Purple Heart
                        1919 -- .310 for AC Bacharach Giants (no ab listed)
                        1919 – 3-12 vs. a mix of ML competition
                        1920 – no ba listed in play for NY Lincoln Giants
                        1921 – no records listed
                        1922 – no ba listed in play for NY Lincoln Giants
                        1923 -- .248 for NY Lincoln Giants, but fuller records probably available, as this was first year of Eastern Colored League

                        Totals
                        102-340 (.300) vs. Black Teams, 1909-1913, 1915, 1916 winter ball
                        .297 mean avg. for 10 seasons as regular, 09-17, 19
                        138-435 (.317) in Cuban Play (including 4 seasons +1914 Lincolns’ tour)
                        22-56 (.393) vs. Major-League competition

                        262-831 (.315) grand total

                        Holway doesn’t give career totals for Poles

                        From Riley
                        Poles’ averages vs. all competition for NY Lincoln Giants, 1911-1914
                        .440, .398, .414, .487
                        lists him as batting over .400 in his career against all competition
                        hitting .319 in Cuba (his avg. without the Lincolns’ tour)
                        hitting .594 against major-league competition
                        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Here's Holway's data on Dick Redding. For each season, I have included Redding's w-l record, his team's w-l record, and runs allowed, when available.

                          I'm not certain how I'm going to rank Redding myself, but I am certain that his own w-l record needs to be evaluated in the context of his teams.

                          Dick Redding in the Negro Leagues
                          1911 5-1, TRA 5.35 for NY Lincoln Giants; team 7-5 or 6-4
                          1912 2-2 for NY Lincoln Giants; team 5-4; (other dec. Joe Williams)
                          1913 0-0 for NY Lincoln Giants
                          1914 4-4 for NY Lincoln Giants; team 15-14 or 14-16 (Joe Williams 6-4)
                          1915 6-2 for NY Stars, TRA 2.55; team 10-9; Holway George Stovey Award. All-star
                          1916 4-1, 5.59 TRA for NY Lincoln Giants; team 10-9 (Joe Williams 5-6); GSA
                          1917 14-5, 1.57 TRA for Chi Am Giants; team 30-7
                          1918 2-0 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 5-3; military service
                          1919 3-3 for AC Bacharach Giants; team 6-5; military service
                          1920 8-7, 3.87 TRA for AC Bacharach Giants; team 12-12; GSA
                          1921 15-11, 3.36 TRA for AC Bacharach Giants, team 34-28, 2-0 in playoff vs. Hilldale; 0-2 in playoff vs. Chi Am Giants
                          1922 9-6, 1.65 TRA for AC Bach Giants; team 20-24; GSA, All-star; 0-1 in WS vs. CAG
                          1923 3-2 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 18-18
                          1924 1-5 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 12-23 (Joe Williams 3-4)
                          1925 2-1 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 16-16
                          1926 0-3 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 3-15
                          1927 2-5 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 14-26
                          1928 2-0 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 3-6
                          1929 no data; pitched for Bkn Royal Giants, who were not in ECL
                          1930 0-2 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 0-6
                          1931 0-1 for Bkn Royal Giants; team 0-7
                          1932 no data; pitched for Bkn Royal Giants, who were not in East-West league

                          Total 82-61, .573 WP
                          Holway’s total, 89-63 (often Holway's own posted career totals don't quite match what I get when I add up the posted seasonal data)

                          Teams 218-238, .478 WP
                          Teams w/out Redding 136-177, .434 WP

                          2. Chris Cobb Posted: October 11, 2004 at 10:52 AM (#909713)
                          P.S. GSA = George Stovey Award, Holway's Negro-League Cy Young award

                          Dick Redding's Cuban League record (from Jorge Figueredo), also including "American Series" record (games between Cuban teams and barnstorming North American teams):

                          1912 Fe 4-8, .333 (team 14-18, .438; w/o Redding, 10-10, .500)
                          1912 Lincoln Gts 2-1 (team 4-8; w/o Redding, 2-7)
                          1913 Fe 7-2, .778 (team 21-11, .656; w/o Redding, 14-9, .609)
                          1914 Lincoln Gts 2-3-1 (team 5-8-1; w/o Redding, 3-5)
                          1914-15 Fe 2-6, .250 (team 5-28, .152; w/o Redding, 3-22, .120)
                          1915 Indianapolis 6-5, .545 (team 8-11, .421; w/o Redding , 2-6, .250)
                          1920 Bacharach Gts 1-1 (team 1-3)
                          1920-21 Bacharach Gts 2-6, .250 (team 4-11 , .267; w/o Redding, 2-5, .286)
                          1922-23 Habana 3-1, .750 (team 20-22, .476; w/o Redding, 17-21, .447)

                          TOTALS 29-33-1, .468 (teams 82-120-1, .406; w/o Redding 53-87, .379)

                          DICK REDDING'S PLACEMENT ON NGL CAREER LEADERBOARDS, 1920-1948

                          Basically this is the second-half or final two-fifths of Redding's career as I understand it.

                          WINS t-65th with 42

                          LOSSES t-51st with 43

                          DECISIONS t-57th with 85

                          WINNING PCT .494
                          (50 Decisions Minimum) 85th
                          (25 Decisions Minimum) 128th
                          (10 Decisions Minimum) 191st

                          ADJ PCT OF TEAM DECISIONS .287
                          (50 Decisions Minimum) 6th
                          (25 Decisions Minimum) 10th
                          (10 Decisions Minimum) 22nd

                          WAT 34th at 7.0

                          WAT PER DECISION .082
                          (50 Decisions Minimum) 26th
                          (25 Decisions Minimum) 43rd
                          (10 Decisions Minimum) 72nd

                          YEARLY WINS LEADERBOARDS

                          1920 led East in wins with 8, 8th in NgLs.

                          1921 led East in wins with 15, t-3rd in NgLs.

                          1922 led East in wins with 9.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Here's the data I have on Joe Rogan as a hitter/fielder. Pitching data to follow shortly.

                            All play for KC Monarchs

                            From Holway

                            1920 .273; rf
                            3-15 vs. major-league competition
                            1921 .293; cf
                            1922 .439, 18 HR, 13 3B, 41 hr/550 ab; MVP; cf
                            0-1 vs. major-league competition (Jack Quinn)
                            1923 .355, 43 hr/550 ab; cf
                            1924 .409 (led league); MVP; rf
                            13-40 in WS vs. Hilldale
                            1925 .374, 10 3B; MVP; cf
                            10-22 in playoff vs. Stl
                            1926 .329; ut
                            7-12 in playoff vs. Chicago
                            1927 .330; cf (also manager from henceforth)
                            1928 .358; ut
                            1929 .325; cf
                            1930 no data – Riley lists Rogan as “seriously ill”; at the end of this season KC Monarchs disband
                            1931 .200; ut – Monarchs reform in August, 1931, according to Riley, with Rogan as manager; Holway has them barnstorming against the white House of David until mid-August, when they began playing black teams
                            1932-35 Monarchs not in NeL (barnstorming) Rogan listed as lf in Holway’s 1934-5 rosters
                            1935 Rogan goes 1-7 vs. Dizzy Dean all-stars
                            1936 .600; ut (in 7 games)
                            1937 .410; ut
                            0-6 in playoff vs. Chi Am Giants
                            3-4 vs. Bob Feller all-stars
                            1938 .263; ut

                            Career
                            709-2038, .348, 62 HR according to Holway
                            20-54 vs. major-league competition

                            mean avg. 1920-29 = .349

                            From Riley

                            For the seasons 1922-30, Rogan hit .351, .416, .412, .366, .314, .330, .353, .341, .311
                            Average vs. ML competition, .329 3. Chris Cobb Posted: November 22, 2004 at 08:32 PM (#978362)
                            Joe Rogan Pitching

                            All play for KC Monarchs

                            From Holway

                            1920 10-4; team 45-31, led league with 154 K
                            1-1 vs. major league competition (Casey Stengel all-stars)
                            1921 20-11; team 54-35, TRA 2.87, 108 K
                            1922 20-11; 4.09 TRA, 96 K, GSA, all-star; team 77-37
                            1-0? vs. major-league competition (unclear if he or Currie got the win)
                            1923 20-19; TRA 3.61, 61 K; team 78-49
                            1924 17-5, 4.35 TRA, 101 K, GSA, all-star; team 60-27
                            2-1, 2.89 ERA in WS vs. Hilldale
                            9-4 in Cuban play
                            1925 20-2, 2.95 TRA, 90 K, GSA, all-star; team 63-20
                            4-0 in playoff vs. Stl, 3.00 TRA, MVP of series
                            1926 14-4; team 65-19
                            3-3, 3.33 TRA in playoff vs. Chicago
                            1927 15-6, 2.84 TRA, 89 K; team 59-33, all-star
                            1928 11-3, 3.52 TRA; team 49-32
                            1929 no data
                            1936 1-0; team 7-0
                            1937 0-0; team 13-8

                            career
                            151-65, according to Holway
                            (seasons add up to 148-65 1925 listed as both 22-2 and 20-2, w/22 wins Rogan has 150)

                            From Riley

                            1922-28 w-l of 13-6, 12-8, 16-5, 15-2, 12-4, 15-6, 9-3

                            BULLET ROGAN'S PLACEMENTS ON HOLWAY-BASED CAREER NGL LEADERBOARDS (1920-1948, 1923 KC Monarchs used courtesy of Gary A.---thanks, Gary!)

                            WINS t-4th at 144

                            LOSSES t-24th with 57

                            DECISIONS 9th with 201

                            WINNING PCT .716
                            (50 Decisions Minimum) 6th
                            (25 Decisions Minimum) 10th
                            (10 Decisions Minimum) 21st

                            ADJ PCT OF TEAM DECISIONS 24.8%
                            (50 Decisions Minimum) 18th
                            (25 Decisions Minimum) 26th
                            (10 Decisions Minimum) 42nd

                            WAT 9th with 13.7

                            WAT PER DECISION .068
                            (50 Decisions Minimum) 37th
                            (25 Decisions Minimum) 55th
                            (10 Decisions Minimum) 85th

                            APPEARANCES ON YEARLY WINS LEADERBOARDS

                            1920 6th in NNL and NgLs with 10 wins

                            1921 2nd in NNL and NgLs with 20 wins (note here Holway and Gary differ; I'm only going with Holway here because I don't have complete team figures for KC.)

                            1922 Led NgLs and NNL with 20 wins.

                            1923 Led NgLs and NNL with 16 wins (tied).

                            1924 Led NNL with 17 wins, 4th in NgLs.

                            1925 Led NNL with 20 wins, 2nd in NgLs.

                            1926 t-3rd in NNL with 14 wins, 6th in NgLs.

                            1927 t-3rd in NNL with 15 wins, t-4th in NgLs.

                            1928 t-6th in NNL and NgLs with 11 wins.
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Louis Santop Data

                              Expert Evaluations summary

                              HF% Career Name-pos (born) BJ – MVP - All-Star
                              76% 09-26 Louis Santop-C (1890) #2 c - 7 - 7*

                              Note: "MVP" is the sum of Bill James and John Holway MVP awards. Santop was probably did not play at MVP level for seven seasons, but Holway and James agree that he was the best player in 3 or 4 seasons.


                              From Holway

                              Seasonal listings
                              1909 no data; Riley lists Santop as ending season with Phi Giants
                              1910 no data; Riley lists Santop with Philadelphia, but no listing in Holway
                              1911 .333 for NY Lincoln Giants (no ab data), split catching duties w/ Pete Booker
                              1911 1-14 in Cuban Play
                              1912 .412 for NY Lincoln Giants (7-17) listed as outfielder
                              1913 .264 for NY Lincoln Giants, listed as outfielder; Holway all-star
                              3-13 vs. Pete Alexander & Walter Johnson
                              1914 .517 for NY Lincoln Giants, listed as outfielder; Holway all-star
                              13-36 in Cuban Play for NY Lincolns
                              1915 .259 for NY Lincoln Stars; listed as outfielder
                              2-8 vs. major-league competition
                              1916 .250 for NY Lincoln Stars; listed as catcher
                              1-3 in winter ball in Florida
                              1917 .414 for Bkn Royal Giants (12-29); c, Holway all-star
                              8-28 vs. Chicago Am Giants in World Series
                              4-12 vs. Joe Bush & a partly big-league squad
                              1918 .444 for Bkn and Phil (12-27); c, Holway all-star, drafted
                              1919 .464 for Bkn (13-28); c. missed part of season in army
                              1920 .265 for Phi Hilldales; c
                              6-16 in playoff vs. Bkn
                              7-24 vs. major-league competition
                              9-17 in Cuban Play
                              1921 .340 or .354 for Phil Hilldales; c, Holway all-star
                              0-10 in play-off vs. AC Bacharachs
                              5-13 in “World Series” vs. Chi Am Giants
                              1922 .404 or .286 for Phil Hilldales, .404 best in east; c, Holway all-star
                              1923 .230 for Phil Hilldales; c
                              4-17 vs. major-league competition, mostly Phil Athletics
                              1924 .328 for Phi Hilldale Giants; c, Holway all-star
                              8-24 in World Series vs. Monarchs; fielding error loses game 8
                              1925 .240 for Phil Hilldale
                              0-2 in World Seies vs. Monarchs
                              1926 no data; released by Hilldales mid-season

                              Career Totals
                              .318 (297-933) career avg. by Holway’s calculation
                              13-45 (.289) vs. major-league competition by Holway’s calculation

                              My totals from Holway
                              .343 (23-97) in Cuban Play
                              .341 mean avg., 1911-1925
                              .270 (20-74) vs. major-league competition


                              From Riley

                              .406 lifetime avg. vs. all competition
                              1911-1914 hit .470, .422, .429, .455 vs. all competition
                              .316 lifetime avg. vs. major-league pitching
                              1921-24 hit .373, .358, .364, .389 for Hilldales, .333 in 1924 world series (matches Holway)
                              1925-6 hit composite .268 as pinch hitter, primarily.
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                HILTON SMITH'S CAREER LEADERBOARD RANKINGS

                                WINS 24th with 70 wins.

                                LOSSES t-97th with 28 losses.

                                DECISIONS t-45th with 98 dec.

                                WIN PCT .714
                                (minimum 50 dec) 7th
                                (minimum 25 dec) t-11th
                                (minimum 10 dec) t-22nd

                                % ADJ DEC OF TEAM .202
                                (minimum 50 dec) 44th
                                (minimum 25 dec) 62nd
                                (minimum 10 dec) 91st

                                WAT 43rd at 5.1

                                WAT/DEC .052
                                (minimum 50 dec) 44th
                                (minimum 25 dec) 65th
                                (minimum 10 dec) 102nd

                                =====================
                                SEASONAL RANKINGS

                                1937 t-3rd in NAL in wins with 6, t-6th in NgLs.

                                1938 1st in NAL in wins with 12, 3rd in NgLs.

                                1939 3rd in NAL in wins with 8, 5th in NgLs.

                                1940 t-1st in NAL in wins with 6, t-9th in NgLs; t-3rd in NAL in losses with 4, t-7th in NgLs.

                                1941 1st in NAL in wins with 10, t-4th in NgLs.

                                1942 t-6th in NAL in wins with 4, t-7th in NgLs.

                                1946 t-5th in NAL in wins with 5, t-9th in NgLs.

                                1947 t-3rd in NAL in wins with 7, t-6th in NgLs.

                                =====================
                                NOTES ON USAGE
                                1937: 1st on team in dec
                                1938: 1st on team in dec
                                1939: 1st on team in dec
                                1940: 1st on team in dec
                                1941: 1st on team in dec
                                1942: 3rd on team in dec
                                1943: 4th on team in dec
                                1944: t-4th on team in dec
                                1945: 4th on team in dec
                                1946: t-2nd on team in dec
                                1947: 2nd on team in dec
                                1948: 5th on team in dec

                                Holway lists no decisions for Smith from 1932-1936.

                                =====================
                                OPPORTUNITY SCORES (OPP+)

                                OPP+: 114
                                485 adj team decisions vs
                                426 league-average team decisions

                                hOPP+: 79
                                485 adj team decisions vs
                                612 historicaly average team decisions

                                =====================
                                Other notes:

                                It would be really helpful to know what to do with Smith's 1932-1936 years. Riley is a bit inconsistent with regard to how he treats the two NO teams Smith played on as well as with the Monroe Monarchs. On one hand, he doesn't treat them as MiL in the headnotes, but he does suggest in the biography that they are. Either way, Holway has no recorded decisions for Smith from that period.

                                Smith played for outstanding teams, thus his WAT is not very high.

                                Riley lists him as going 8-5 in VZ for the 1946 winter season (for the champion team).

                                Holway's Latin America numbers for Smith:
                                6-3 in Cuba in 1937.
                                4-2 in Cuba in 1939.
                                3-5 in Mexico in 1941, with a 3.88 ERA.
                                13-11 in Mexico in 1942.

                                26-21: .553

                                Hilton Smith's year by year numbers as requested (I don't have the Mexican team totals handy):

                                YEAR LG TM W L PCT WAT
                                ----------------------------
                                1937 NAL KC 6 4 0.600 -0.4
                                1938 NAL KC 12 2 0.857 3.1
                                1939 NAL KC 8 2 0.800 1.9
                                1940 NAL KC 6 4 0.600 -2.8
                                1941 NAL KC 10 1 0.909 1.9
                                1941 TOR MX 3 5 0.375 ?
                                1942 NAL KC 4 3 0.571 -1.4
                                1942 TOR MX 13 11 0.542 ?
                                1943 NAL KC 4 2 0.667 1.1
                                1944 NAL KC 2 4 0.333 -0.8
                                1945 NAL KC 5 2 0.714 1.4
                                1946 NAL KC 5 2 0.714 -0.3
                                1947 NAL KC 7 0 1.000 1.8
                                1948 NAL CL 1 2 0.333 -0.5
                                ============================
                                TOTAL 74 28 0.725 5.1


                                Hilton Smith pitched two seasons in the Cuban League. Here's his record:
                                Year Team G CG W L Tm W* Tm L Tm Pct WAT % tm dec
                                37-38 Marianao 14 7 6 3 29 28 .509 1.7 16%
                                39-40 Santa Clara 9 2 4 2 24 27 .471 1.3 12%
                                Total 23 9 10 5 3.0
                                * Excludes games won by forfeit: 1937-38 (6-W)

                                Notes:
                                1937-38 - Team's no. 3 pitcher (in decisions) behind Dihigo and Barney Brown
                                1939-40 - Team's no. 5 pitcher behind René Monteagudo, Roy Partlow, Armando Torres, and Andy Porter.
                                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                                Comment

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