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  • #61
    Some partial stats for Baseball's greatest unknown - Cannonball Bill Jackman.

    1925: 15-2 record in known games for the Philadelphia Giants. Victories over major league pitchers Buck O'Brien (2), King Bader and Earl Hanson. No decisions or saves versus major league pitchers Bump Hadley, Chippy Gaw and Cy Morgan.

    1926: 14-6 in known games for the Philadelphia Giants. Victories over major league pitchers Haskell Billings and King Bader. 2-0 record versus Class B New England League teams. 14-strikeout game versus top semi-pro team. 2-hit shutout and 14 K game versus Cape Cod League (with major leaguers) All-Star team.

    1927: 18-6 record in known games for the Philadelphia Giants. 3-0 versus opposing pitchers with big league time. 16-K game versus a semi-pro team that had 7 players in the lineup with big league time. 10 or more strikeouts in 7 of 22 known starts.

    1928: 12-8 record in known games for Philadelphia Giants. Tossed 3-hit shutout versus Pop Lloyd-lead Lincoln Giants and 2-hit shutout versus Boston Colored Tigers. Lost a one-hitter with 12 K's versus Cape Cod League All-Star team. 3-2 record versus Cape Cod League teams and 1-4 record versus Lincoln Giants. Note that players with professional experience, including many with big league time, were eligible and did play in the Cape Cod League up through 1934.

    1929: 16-7 record in known games for the Philadelphia Giants. 0-1 versus Lincoln Giants and 1-0 versus Brooklyn Cubans. Pitched perfect game versus the Philadelphia Red Caps. 15-K, 3-hit shutout versus Cape Cod League all-star team in which Vito Tamulis was the opposing pitcher. Also had 14-K game while pitching for the East Douglas team in the Blackstone Valley League where future major league Hank Greenberg was his first baseman and Gene Desautels was his catcher.


    Keep in mind this data just reflects a small portion of Jackman's career, and that he pitched professionally from 1917 to 1952.

    Schoolboy Johnny Taylor tossed a no-hitter verus Satchel Paige in the Polo Grounds in 1937. A few years earlier Taylor beat Jackman, 5-4 in 22 innings. In 1938 Taylor told the Boston Chronicle that he win versus Jackman, and not his no-hitter versus Paige, was his biggest accomplishment to date. He also called Jackman a "smarter" pitcher than Paige.

    Comment


    • #62
      Some pitching data from Shades of Glory (from the HOF's study of Negro League stats for the recently elected class of Negro Leaguers).

      Please note that the data begins in 1920 and is limited to the American Negro Leagues (not Mexico or the winter leagues), so I won't report Joe Williams because the best of his career was already over. I've also taken the career data and translated it to 275 IP. I used the ERA and winning percentage from the book, rather than calculating it from the data presented.

      Code:
       Name  	      games     GS  	CG  	IP  	hits  	runs  	ER  	ERA  	K  	BB  	WP  	HB  	SV  	W  	 L  	 Pct   name
      Leon Day 	44 	35 	21 	275.0 	235 	138 	91 	2.98 	154 	83 	1 	4 	3 	20 	10 	.661   Leon Day
      Bill Foster 	43 	30 	24 	275.0 	225 	103 	73 	2.40 	150 	76 	2 	5 	3 	21 	10 	.675   Bill Foster
      Satchel Paige 	48 	36 	20 	275.0 	215 	101 	62 	2.02 	225 	46 	3 	3 	2 	19 	11 	.628   Satchel Paige
      Hilton Smith 	49 	28 	18 	275.0 	228 	103 	52 	1.68 	159 	33 	2 	4 	2 	24 	11 	.696   Hilton Smith
      Last edited by jalbright; 06-25-2006, 06:23 AM.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #63
        I'll try my two pitcher-hitters, Martin Dihigo and Bullet Joe Rogan. The caveats from the previous post about this material only being from post 1920 American summer Negro Leagues and that pitchers are converted to 275 IP hold here. I've also done hitting on a 550 AB basis. ERA, winning percentage, average and slugging are taken from the book rather than calculated from this converted career data.

        Code:
        Name         games GS  CG      IP   hits  runs  ER  ERA     K   BB  WP  HB  SV  W    L   Pct   Name
        Martin Dihigo  43    29   23  275.0  247  122   89  2.92  137  62    2    3    2  20  15  .578  Martin Dihigo
        Joe Rogan      40    29   25  275.0  294  112  79   2.59  162  69    5    2    3  22  10  .699  Joe Rogan
        
        Name           AB  runs  hits  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  Sac  SB  avg    obp  slg     Name
        Martin Dihigo  550  114  169  24   7  25    89  56    8    16  .307  .371  .511  Martin Dihigo
        Joe Rogan      550   99  186  28  16  12    68  66    15    28  .338  .409  .515  Joe Rogan
        Last edited by jalbright; 06-25-2006, 08:20 AM.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #64
          Some hitting data from Shades of Glory, with career numbers from 1920 (the earliest year of stats given in the book) modified to 550 AB. Average and slugging percentages come from the book rather than calculated from the converted numbers. Also, please note these stats come only from the American Negro Leagues, not winter leagues or Mexico.

          Since I initially didn't get it to display very well (at least IMO), I've attached a word document with the same info.

          Code:
          
          Name                 AB runs  hits 2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  Sac  SB  avg  obp  slg  Name
          Cool Papa Bell      550  118  175  25   8   6   38  54   7  23  .317  .379  .425  Cool Papa Bell
          Oscar Charleston----550  127  192  34  11  23   91  74  13  33  .348  .425  .576  Oscar Charleston
          Ray Dandridge-------550   81  174  22   9   2   41  29   2  12  .315  .351  .400  Ray Dandridge
          Josh Gibson         550  138  197  32  12  34  128  75   2   7  .359  .435  .648  Josh Gibson
          Monte Irvin         550  117  197  32   8  22  137  53   9  14  .358  .415  .564  Monte Irvin
          Judy Johnson        550   88  161  23   9   5   54  29  10  12  .293  .328  .395  Judy Johnson
          Buck Leonard        550  132  176  27  10  22  103  96  12   9  .320  .421  .527  Buck Leonard
          Pop Lloyd           550   99  189  28   6   6   53  46  15  19  .343  .394  .450  Pop Lloyd
          Turkey Stearnes     550  112  190  32  16  29  113  61   7  20  .345  .411  .618  Turkey Stearnes
          Willie Wells        550  123  175  33   8  19    7  66  11  19  .319  .391  .510  Willie Wells
          Attached Files
          Last edited by jalbright; 01-19-2008, 05:06 AM.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #65
            I can get the HTML to display correctly at home, but not in the post. What gives?
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #66
              Thanks to Ubi and SABR Matt, I've got the data displayed halfway decently.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #67
                This is some fantastic data on these players. Best I've seen so far. Thanks for sharing.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by jalbright
                  Josh Gibson Data

                  Seasonal data from Holway

                  ....
                  1940 .167 for Homestead, part-season only
                  1940 In Mexico, 43-92, .467, 11 hr (2nd), 65 hr/550 (1st)
                  1941 In Mexico, 134-368, .374 (2nd); 33 hr (1st), 49 hr/550 (1st)
                  . Major-league competition, 2 hr

                  Gibson has some Cuban play, I think, and a number of winter seasons in Puerto Rico, for which data is also available, and I’m sure there are better stats available for his Mexican League seasons, but this is good for a start.


                  His Cuban record consisted of two seasons:

                  1937-38 - Habana (apparently signed late in season)
                  61 AB, 11 R, 21 H, 3 2B, 2 3B, 3 HR, 13 RBI, .344

                  1938-39 - Santa Clara (won pennant)
                  163 AB, 50 R, 58 H, 7 2B, 3 3B, 11 HR, 39 RBI, 2 SB, .356

                  Led league in runs and HR. Set season record in HR. (I'm not sure what the previous record was, but thumbing through the book the highest earlier total I could find was 7 by Mule Suttles. The Cuban ballparks prior to 1942 were huge -- the main park in Havana, La Tropical, was listed as 498 to left, 505 to center, and 398 to right.)

                  Josh Gibson's Mexican League batting (he joined Veracruz late in the season, but was still only only 1 HR behind the league leader, Cool Papa Bell):

                  1940
                  G-22
                  AB-92
                  H-43
                  D-7
                  T-4
                  HR-11
                  R-32
                  RBI-38
                  BB-16
                  SO-6
                  HP-0
                  SH-0
                  SB-3
                  AVE-.467
                  OBA-.565
                  SLG-.989

                  And 1941, also with Veracruz:
                  G-94
                  AB-358
                  H-134
                  D-31
                  T-3
                  HR-33
                  R-100
                  RBI-124
                  BB-75
                  SO-25
                  HP-1
                  SH-0
                  SB-7
                  AVE-.374
                  OBA-.484
                  SLG-.754

                  Totals:
                  G-116
                  AB-450
                  H-177
                  D-38
                  T-7
                  HR-44
                  R-132
                  RBI-162
                  BB-91
                  SO-31
                  HP-1
                  SH-0
                  SB-10
                  AVE-.393
                  OBA-.496
                  SLG-.802

                  There's also his Dominican League stats from 1937, from Holway, which I think nobody's mentioned. Gibson hit 24 for 53 (.453). Next highest was Clyde Spearman, at .352, then Dihigo at .351 (in 97 ABs). Holway doesn't give extra base hits, or anything else.
                  Joshua "Trucutru" Gibson played baseball in Venezuela in 1940 and 1941 in our prior profesional league. He is mentioned as the player with the longest homerun in our baseball, around 570 ft which go out from San Agustin Stadium, crossed one street and land in the backyards of a auto repair garage.
                  In fact there is similar story in Dominican Republic with a homerun hit in a park beside the sea that landed in a ship property of the dictator Trujillo.
                  There is not much stats regarding our championships in those times but Gibson is well remember (and beloved) for people who saw him playing here.
                  You have to suffer a revolution to know what are you talking about.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Minnie Minoso

                    The best data I have is from The Negro Leagues Book by Dick Clark and Larry Lester. There are two Negro League seasons without data. I also provided the Cuban Winter League data. Remember, Negro League seasons were often short. We also do not have walk data here, so it's hard to determine just how good he was. Nevertheless, it's clear he wasn't overwhelming in these seasons before he got himself established in the majors.

                    Code:
                    Year	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	AVG	SLG
                    1945	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….
                    1946	33	123	22	32	7	3	3	16	1	0.260	0.439
                    1947	55	228	56	67	14	0	3	…	7	0.294	0.395
                    1948	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….
                    totals	88	351	78	99	21	3	6	16	8	0.260	0.410
                    per 550 AB	550	34	50	11	5	5	25	2	0.260	0.410
                    
                    Cuba											
                    45-46	37	143	14	42	7	2	0	13	5	0.294	0.371
                    46-47	64	253	36	63	9	5	0	20	7	0.249	0.324
                    47-48	70	270	43	77	15	13	1	36	7	0.285	0.448
                    48-49	69	260	42	69	8	5	4	27	9	0.265	0.381
                    49-50	didn't	play	(?)								
                    50-51	66	252	54	81	12	6	4	41	10	0.321	0.464
                    totals	306	1178	189	332	51	31	9	137	38	0.265	0.401
                    per 550 AB	550	20	32	4	2	2	13	4	0.265	0.401
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Newt Allen (Seamheads)
                      Season Team Pos G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SH HP BB SO SB GiDP BA OBP SA OPS League
                      1922 Kansas City Monarchs 1b-2b-3b 5 14 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 .071 .071 .071 .143 vs High Minors
                      1923 Kansas City Monarchs 2b-ss-3b 33 115 21 35 1 2 0 10 3 2 10 2 .304 .370 .348 .718 NNL

                      Comment

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