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  • Old Sweater
    replied
    Originally posted by Gregory Pratt View Post
    Why on Earth can't I just submit this article as my post instead of having to waste twenty seconds exing out a "You must submit a message" message and then writing a message? Sheesh.
    Should have just posted the link Gregory. That's a good article that I came across once to. It more or less explains the fact that near 100mph you are at the max limit for the human arm. No amount of training or PED shortcuts is going to help you exceed the limit of 100mph by much.


    Still, according to experts in biomechanics, that 100-mph ceiling isn't an illusion—it's a basic property of human physiology. A pitcher generates momentum by rocking onto his back leg and thrusting forward. After that he rotates his pelvis and upper trunk, then his elbow, shoulder, and wrist. Intuitively, it seems like building up the muscles in the legs, upper body, arm, and shoulder would generate more force and make his arm move faster. The reality: There's a point when more torque doesn't yield a faster pitch. It simply causes tendons and ligaments to snap, detaching muscles from bones and bones from one another. (Tendons connect muscles to bones; ligaments connect bones to each other.)

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  • closer28
    replied
    zumaya and matt thornton

    at was at a royals game in 2005 and matt thornton was clocked at 102 i think and then zumaya http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/team/p...ayer_id=451491 click on zumaya brings the gas

    Leave a comment:


  • Padday
    replied
    The fastest I've seen was 112 mph at Safeco field last April. The amazing thing was that both pitchers were throwing 112mph and consistently aswell.

    ...Hmm. Now come to think about it, I think their pitch speed board was broken.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gregory Pratt
    replied
    Pitcher Perfect
    Why can't anyone throw a baseball faster than 100 mph?

    When baseball's elders swap stories about fireballers, the name that ends the conversation isn't Nolan Ryan or Sandy Koufax. It's one that never appeared on the back of a major-league uniform: Steve Dalkowski. Legend has it that the 5-foot-11-inch, 170-pound lefty threw his fastball well in excess of 100 mph. We don't have an exact number for the same reason Dalkowski, who toiled in the minors in the late 1950s and early 1960s, never made the big leagues: He was too wild to time. When a scout tried to gauge Dalkowski's fastball with a primitive radar gun—a beam of light the width of home plate—the pitcher couldn't hit the target until after his arm got tired.

    Steve Dalkowski sounds like a genetic freak, but so is anyone who can throw a baseball 90 mph. What he really represents is a blow to the basic notion of human progress. In almost every measurable physical activity, athletes show improvement over time. Jumpers jump higher and farther, and runners and swimmers go faster. Since the late 1950s, the high-jump world record has improved by more than 10 percent, the 100-meter-dash mark has improved by 5 percent, and swimming's best 100-meter freestyle has dipped 12 percent.

    Pitchers, though, don't seem to be getting any faster. Pretty much every generation since the early 1900s has boasted a supposed 100-mph pitcher, from Walter Johnson and Smoky Joe Wood to Bob Feller to Dalkowski to Nolan Ryan. If we stick with speeds registered since modern radar guns became ubiquitous in the 1970s, peak velocity seems to be a shade north of 100. Major League Baseball doesn't keep official records on pitch speeds, but the Guinness Book of World Records credits Ryan with the fastest pitch ever, a 100.9-mph heater from 1974. This article disagrees, crowning Mark Wohlers the radar-gun champ with a 103-mph pitch. (For an explanation of why radar gun readings can be inconsistent, click here.)

    Maybe it only looks like the outer limit for pitchers is stable at around 100 mph because we can't consistently and accurately measure minute improvements in speed. When it comes to flamethrowers, after all, it's hard to figure out what's the truth and what's a tall tale. Feller once sent a fastball zooming by a speeding motorcycle. Maybe the ball really was traveling at 104 mph, as the organizers of the stunt claimed. Or maybe not.

    Still, according to experts in biomechanics, that 100-mph ceiling isn't an illusion—it's a basic property of human physiology. A pitcher generates momentum by rocking onto his back leg and thrusting forward. After that he rotates his pelvis and upper trunk, then his elbow, shoulder, and wrist. Intuitively, it seems like building up the muscles in the legs, upper body, arm, and shoulder would generate more force and make his arm move faster. The reality: There's a point when more torque doesn't yield a faster pitch. It simply causes tendons and ligaments to snap, detaching muscles from bones and bones from one another. (Tendons connect muscles to bones; ligaments connect bones to each other.)

    Glenn Fleisig, a biomechanical engineer who studies pitching at the American Sports Medicine Institute in Birmingham, Ala., has calculated that about 80 Newton-meters of torque act on an elite pitcher's elbow when he throws a fastball. The ulnar collateral ligament connects the humerus and ulna—two of the bones that come together in the elbow. To test the outer limits of the ligament's strength, Fleisig subjected cadaver elbows to increasing amounts of rotational force. These experiments showed that an average person's UCL snaps at about 80 Newton-meters. Smoky Joe Wood said that he threw so fast he thought his arm was going to fly off. It turns out he wasn't far from the truth.

    Another way to test the proposition that ligament fragility limits velocity is to see what happens when pitchers strengthen their muscles. Mike Axe, an orthopedic surgeon and protégé of Fleisig's partner James Andrews, advises pitchers to build up their shoulder muscles by practicing with a weighted glove on their throwing hand. According to Axe, a pitcher can add up 2 to 5 mph to his fastball with this regimen. The potential gains are lower for those who throw fast to begin with, though. Axe has seen pitchers increase their velocity from 84 to 88 mph and from 88 to 91 mph. He's never seen anyone improve from 98 to 100. The chief benefit for these hurlers is that they suffer fewer muscle tears.

    Why do sprinters keep getting faster while baseball pitchers seem to have maxed out? Because track athletes don't approach the limits of what human tendons and ligaments can handle. When you run the 100-meter dash, no single stride represents as violent a motion as the arm makes during a single overhand pitch. Sprinters can build up their muscles without worrying that the extra force will rip their ligaments apart—that's why steroid use seems to make sprinters faster but won't help pitchers generate velocity beyond a certain point. (A better reason for a pitcher to take steroids would be to decrease the time it takes to recover between games.)

    Ligaments and tendons can get stronger, but at a much slower rate than the muscles that surround them. There are rumors that pitchers who've undergone Tommy John surgery—that is, a replacement of the UCL with a tendon from the hamstring or wrist—can throw harder than they did before having surgery. But any increase in velocity probably has less to do with getting a new superligament than with the strict rehabilitation program Tommy John patients are supposed to follow. The reason pitchers get injured in the first place is that their muscles, tendons, and ligaments weren't as strong as they should have been.

    What about growing taller, more massive pitchers? That doesn't necessarily make a difference, either. Small, slightly built pitchers like Dalkowski, the 5-foot-11 Pedro Martinez, and the 5-foot-10 Billy Wagner throw just as hard as giants such as Randy Johnson. The physical principle here is fairly simple. If two levers move at the same speed, the ball released from the longer lever will have more velocity. But as a lever becomes larger, it requires more torque to move. Randy's lever is larger; Wagner's moves more quickly. The trade-off makes their velocity roughly equal.

    In the last two decades, baseball managers and GMs have focused less on speed and more on injury prevention. According to Fleisig, whose clinic has diagnosed mechanical problems in professional pitchers since 1990, "[Baseball executives] don't come to me and say make this guy a few miles per hour faster. They say, help this guy stay on the field." Steve Dalkowski should have been so lucky. He blew out his arm fielding a bunt in an exhibition game in 1963, on the eve of his first major-league start.
    Why on Earth can't I just submit this article as my post instead of having to waste twenty seconds exing out a "You must submit a message" message and then writing a message? Sheesh.

    Leave a comment:


  • FantasyBaseballMafia
    replied
    Update from http://www.baseball-almanac.com

    In Order by Fastest Observed Speed
    (Listing Has Only The Fastest Known Speed by the Pitcher )

    Pitcher
    Radar Speed
    Date
    Location

    Mark Wohlers
    103.0 mph
    1995
    Spring Training

    Joel Zumaya
    103.0 mph
    07-04-2006
    McAfee Coliseum

    Armando Benitez
    102.0 mph
    05-24-2002
    Shea Stadium

    Bobby Jenks
    102.0 mph
    08-27-2005
    Safeco Field

    Randy Johnson
    102.0 mph
    07-09-2004
    Pacific Bell Park

    Matt Lindstrom
    102.0 mph
    05-16-2007
    PNC Park

    Robb Nen
    102.0 mph
    10-23-1997
    Jacobs Field

    Justin Verlander *
    102.0 mph
    06-12-2007 †
    Comerica Park

    Jonathan Broxton *
    101.0 mph
    06-26-2007
    Chase Field

    A.J. Burnett
    101.0 mph
    05-31-2005
    PNC Park

    Rob Dibble
    101.0 mph
    06-08-1992
    Candlestick Park

    Kyle Farnsworth
    101.0 mph
    05-26-2004
    Minute Maid Park

    Eric Gagne
    101.0 mph
    04-16-2004
    Pacific Bell Park

    Jose Mesa
    101.0 mph
    05-01-1993
    Cleveland Stadium

    Guillermo Mota
    101.0 mph
    07-24-2002
    Qualcomm Stadium

    Tony Pena
    101.0 mph
    06-07-2007
    AT&T Park

    Billy Wagner *
    101.0 mph
    07-30-2003
    Turner Field

    Nolan Ryan
    100.9 mph
    08-20-1974
    Anaheim Stadium

    Josh Beckett
    100.0 mph
    10-12-2003
    Pro Player Park

    Daniel Cabrera
    100.0 mph
    05-09-2005
    Camden Yards

    Roger Clemens
    100.0 mph
    10-10-2001
    Yankee Stadium

    Bartolo Colon
    100.0 mph
    10-06-1999
    Jacobs Field

    Francisco Cordero
    100.0 mph
    07-07-2004
    Jacobs Field

    Rich Harden
    100.0 mph
    05-27-2005
    McAfee Stadium

    Jorge Julio
    100.0 mph
    09-16-2004
    Skydome

    Brandon League
    100.0 mph
    07-14-2006
    Rogers Centre

    J.R. Richard
    100.0 mph
    05-25-1976
    Candlestick Park

    C.C. Sabathia
    100.0 mph
    06-28-2002
    Jacobs Field

    Ben Sheets
    100.0 mph
    07-10-2004
    Miller Park

    Rafael Soriano *
    100.0 mph
    05-04-2007
    Turner Field

    Derrick Turnbow
    100.0 mph
    05-27-2005
    Miller Park

    Kerry Wood
    100.0 mph
    08-10-2005
    Wrigley Field

    Pitcher
    Radar Speed
    Date
    Location

    * Actual picture of speed taken from the field at top of the chart.
    † Took place during a no hitter

    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/arti...baseball.shtml


    GP
    www.FantasyBaseballMafia.com
    http://wiretap.hipcast.com/rss/fbm_wiretap.xml

    Leave a comment:


  • Dalkowski110
    replied
    "Didn't Zumaya smoke one at 103 last year against the Yanks in the postseason as well?"

    Radar guns were dialed up during the playoffs last year...I remember Billy Wagner hitting 100 mph on almost every pitch.

    "that topped Ryan's record."

    To top Ryan's record officially, you have to A) be clocked at the Ryan Distance of 50'6" and B) be clocked by a chronograph, not a radar gun. I'll grant you that B is kinda subjective, but A does count. And Anderson's pitches were being timed at about 40-45 feet away from the plate, depending on the kind of radar gun. Oh yeah, and I was wrong...Ryan Anderson was of course the Seattle SP prospect that flopped. It was Matt Anderson who was such a hard thrower.
    Last edited by Dalkowski110; 06-03-2007, 10:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • natsnsoxfan
    replied
    Originally posted by Dalkowski110 View Post

    "Ive heard it was Brian Anderson, the SP for the Royals from a few years back."

    You mean Ryan Anderson? Anderson was never clocked at the Ryan Distance, though it was estimated he hit about 100 mph there (which is impressive, but still doesn't beat Nolan Ryan).
    Thats who it was. I thought i remember something about him hitting 103.7 or 101.7 or something that topped Ryan's record. I don't remember clearly because it was so long ago though.

    Leave a comment:


  • rdowney19
    replied
    Didn't Zumaya smoke one at 103 last year against the Yanks in the postseason as well?

    Leave a comment:


  • Dalkowski110
    replied
    "Joel Zumaya of the Detroit Tigers was regularly clocked at 100-103 mph last year during the regular season. This past week, in an exhibition game against the Atlanta Braves, he was clocked a 107 mph on one of his pitches. Chipper Jones commented after the game that even before he saw the radar gun register 107 mph he knew it was the fastest pitch he had ever seen in his career."

    Problem there is that they were clocking the pitches as they left Zumaya's hand. Not the fastest by a long shot...it was blasted out of Bob Feller's hand at 115 (approx) when they clocked him.

    "Hey you guys i watched a documentary on sportscenter a few years back about a kid who lived up in the mountains. They said he could throw like 125mph but i'd have to see it to believe it. Did anyone else see this documentary? They also said he had a tryout with the mets."

    That was a mockumentary. Made-up guy who everyone has gone along with named Sidd Finch. The guy who portrayed him is an Ohio schoolteacher. I like to call Sidd Finch "the baseball equivalent to Spinaltap."

    "Ive heard it was Brian Anderson, the SP for the Royals from a few years back."

    You mean Ryan Anderson? Anderson was never clocked at the Ryan Distance, though it was estimated he hit about 100 mph there (which is impressive, but still doesn't beat Nolan Ryan).

    Leave a comment:


  • natsnsoxfan
    replied
    Ive heard it was Brian Anderson, the SP for the Royals from a few years back.

    Leave a comment:


  • utterchaos jr.
    replied
    Originally posted by robert erkkila View Post
    Joel Zumaya of the Detroit Tigers was regularly clocked at 100-103 mph last year during the regular season. This past week, in an exhibition game against the Atlanta Braves, he was clocked a 107 mph on one of his pitches. Chipper Jones commented after the game that even before he saw the radar gun register 107 mph he knew it was the fastest pitch he had ever seen in his career.
    I was going to say, last year I saw Zumaya go like this or something:

    PITCH: 99
    PITCH: 96
    PITCH: 97
    PITCH: 100
    PITCH: 99
    PITCH: 101
    PITCH: 102
    PITCH: 99
    PITCH: 103
    PITCH: 100
    PITCH: 98
    PITCH: 99

    Leave a comment:


  • robert erkkila
    replied
    Zumaya the fastest!

    Joel Zumaya of the Detroit Tigers was regularly clocked at 100-103 mph last year during the regular season. This past week, in an exhibition game against the Atlanta Braves, he was clocked a 107 mph on one of his pitches. Chipper Jones commented after the game that even before he saw the radar gun register 107 mph he knew it was the fastest pitch he had ever seen in his career.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigrcube
    replied
    Originally posted by EvanAparra View Post
    So you are saying that Ryan throws about 6 mph faster than Zumaya? I dont believe that at all.
    The Ryan Express just celebrated his 60th birthday on January 31st.
    Even at his advanced age, I think he could throw harder than Zumaya TODAY?!
    Well at least bull dog him down and give him a noogie just like Robin Ventura?!
    .....ahem.....who is Joel Zumaya again?!?!

    And let's NOT forget the "Big Train" Walter Johnson.
    He was still throwing GAS by young hitters during batting practice
    as a coach at age 50.
    Last edited by Bigrcube; 04-02-2007, 05:06 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • leylandforpresident
    replied
    zumaya

    on Friday march 30th during a spring training game Joel Zumaya was clocked at 107mph!!! even with juiced up guns this had to be over 101 MPH, they also had two other guns that clocked at him at 105. Even with some corruption i believe that this is pretty conclusively breaking the record. if he is being clocked at these speeds on multiple guns how can we argue that they can be as far as 10 MPH off.and if they really are juicing the guns up that much what if the public finds out wont this create an uproar. nobody would be so excited about these numbers if they were really that considerably "juiced"

    Leave a comment:


  • elmer
    replied
    Interview with Dalkowski

    http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/447168.html

    Leave a comment:

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