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Bochy winds Up 5th in Career managerial Losses

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  • Bochy winds Up 5th in Career managerial Losses

    Bruce Bochy, who retired after last season wound up 11th in career managerial Wins and 5th in losses (2003-2029)..
    In Wins he placed between 10th place Leo Durocher (2008 Wins (2008-1709) and 12th place Casey Stengel (1905 Wins: 1905-1842).
    It was questionable whether Bochy's
    San Francisco Giants would play well enough to reach 2,000 wins, but they eked out 75 wins to get Bochy over the 2000 Wins milestone, with 2003 Wins.

    Career Losses Leaders:
    1. Connie Mack 3731-3948
    2. Tony La Russa 2728-2365
    3. Bucky Harris 2158-2219
    4. Gene Mauch 1902-2037
    5. Bruce Bochy 2003-2029
    6. Joe Torre 2326-1997.
    Last edited by 1954 Phils; 02-04-2020, 08:32 PM.

  • #2
    It won't make a lick of difference to his Hall of Fame case. To illustrate the point, I don't recall anyone talking about Bochy's place on the career loss last year, though Boch (and his Hall credentials) were discussed a good bit. Interesting fact.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
      It won't make a lick of difference to his Hall of Fame case. To illustrate the point, I don't recall anyone talking about Bochy's place on the career loss last year, though Boch (and his Hall credentials) were discussed a good bit. Interesting fact.
      3 World's Championships in 5 years will lead the writers or veterans committees to overlook a slightly under .500 career record.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 1954 Phils View Post

        3 World's Championships in 5 years will lead the writers or veterans committees to overlook a slightly under .500 career record.
        Add that to his longevity and I for one would shake on it.
        Put it in the books.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 1954 Phils View Post

          3 World's Championships in 5 years will lead the writers or veterans committees to overlook a slightly under .500 career record.
          I think just one would have. Look at Gene Mauch (#4 on that list).
          "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
          "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
          "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
          "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

          Comment


          • #6
            Of all the managerial records I think that a couple of the most interesting are Wilbert Robinson (1399-1398; Win % .500 and Roger Craig 738-737; Win % .500. - Although both Robinson ( a Pre- World War Two Hall Of Famer) and Craig have won more games than they've lost their winning percentage is recorded as .500, because while their actual winning percentage is more than .500000, their winning percentage is less than .5005 and so their winning percentage is "rounded down" to an even .500.

            Just looking at winning percentages of some recent managers - Danny Murtaugh's managerial record stands out. His .540 winning percentage (1,115-950) for a career that is over 2,000 games long is very good and I think that he should have been elected to the Baseball Hall Of fame by now. He died in December 1976 of a hear attack at age 59 and if he had lived and managed say, five more years, he would have built a managerial record that would have been so good that his election to the Hall Of Fame would have been almost mandatory, because managers with similar records would all be members of the Hall Of Fame and that would MANDATE MURTAUGH'S HOF election as well.

            I think that among active managers that Dusty Baker (who will be an active manager again in 2020 and who is approaching 1,900 managerial wins), Joe Maddon and Terry Francona are almost locks for Hall Of Fame status upon their retirements. Among the recently retired managers Bruce Bochy, despite an under .500 overall record, Davey Johnson, Mike Scioscia, and Lou Pinella will have their days in Cooperstown. I'd elect Jim Leyland as well - even though his winning % is only slightly over .500, at .506 As well as one world's championship and a few trips to the World Series and skippering many division winning, first-place regular season winners, Leyland deserves credit for his longevity - since he's managed nearly 3,500 regular season games (1,769-1,728) - a total of 3,497 regular season games managed overall.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think managers to make the HOF basically need to get in by one of three criteria:

              1) Very high winning percentage and a longer career, even without a championship (Al Lopez pathway)
              2) Total number of victories (top 10 all time or so) and at least one championship. 0.500 career winning percentage is okay. (Bucky Harris pathway)
              3) Manager of a dynasty with three WS titles, maybe 2 titles if you have more pennants, even if you don't have a lot of career wins. (Billy Southworth pathway).

              I don't think you get in without doing one of the above (note, this excludes combo credit for also being a player). Bruce hits points 2 and 3; he's going in.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                Add that to his longevity and I for one would shake on it.
                It's hard for the HOF to ignore Bochy, with his 4,032 game managerial career, despite him not quite reaching the break even point. Add his 3 World's Titles as a manager and his argument for election to the Hall becomes much more convincing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The last two San Francisco Giants managers lifetime records were very .500-ish and so is the record of their new manager:

                  Felipe Alou (all teams) 1033-1021; .503 win %. SF Giants: 342-304; win % .529 (4 years: 2003-2006)
                  Bruce Bochy (all teams) 2003-2029; .497 win %. SF Giants:1052-1054; win % .500 (.49952) (13 years: 2007-2019).
                  Combined (all teams) 3036-3050; .499 win %. SF Giants: (17 years: 1394-1358; win % .507 (.5065).


                  Bochy was 951-975; win% .494 in 12 years with the San Diego Padres (1995-2006), that included one National League Pennant in 1998. (Bochy's only World Series Loss).
                  Alou was 71 years of age in his last year as the Giants manager (2006). Alou remained in the SF Giants organization as an advisor after stepping down as manager. the Giants sought out a much younger man to be his replacement and the winner of this job search was Bochy, who was in his early 50s at the time he landed the Giants' managerial job.

                  Alou is the prototype of the type of person who some feel should be eligible for the Hall of Fame in a Combination Player/Manager/Front Office type of role.
                  Alou had 51 straight years of service (1956-2006) as a minor league player, major league player with a very good career (over 2,00 games played,over 2,000 hits, more hits than games played (2,101 Hits in 2,082 games, over 200 home runs, better than a .285 career batting average, 3 all-star game selections), major leagues coach, minor league manager, and major league manager, and those 51 years don't even inclyde his continuing service as a SF Gaints organization advisor.,

                  Now Bochy's job gone to an even younger manager, Gabe Kapler, who is 44 and has 2 years of prior major league managerial experience, going 161-163, for a win.% of .497 with the 2018 & 2019 Phillies).
                  Last edited by 1954 Phils; 02-18-2020, 11:17 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=1954 Phils;n3562557]

                    Just looking at winning percentages of some recent managers - Danny Murtaugh's managerial record stands out. His .540 winning percentage (1,115-950) for a career that is over 2,000 games long is very good and I think that he should have been elected to the Baseball Hall Of fame by now. He died in December 1976 of a hear attack at age 59 and if he had lived and managed say, five more years, he would have built a managerial record that would have been so good that his election to the Hall Of Fame would have been almost mandatory, because managers with similar records would all be members of the Hall Of Fame and that would MANDATE MURTAUGH'S HOF election as well.
                    [/QUOTE

                    I've made this argument several times. Murtaugh's record was really good, and remember- he took over a team in 1957 that had lost consistently and big time for a full decade, Murtaugh, working with Joe Brown and a fine scouting staff, developed a team that would be in contention almost every year for two decades. Records aside, Murtaugh may be the best manager I ever witnessed- he understood the game, and he understood people. He could be tough, and he could be understanding, and he almost always knew when to go either way. He was comfortable with small ball teams and with slugging teams. He was as good as they come- it's a shame that he hasn't been recognized.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=BigRon;n3564518]
                      Originally posted by 1954 Phils View Post

                      Just looking at winning percentages of some recent managers - Danny Murtaugh's managerial record stands out. His .540 winning percentage (1,115-950) for a career that is over 2,000 games long is very good and I think that he should have been elected to the Baseball Hall Of fame by now. He died in December 1976 of a hear attack at age 59 and if he had lived and managed say, five more years, he would have built a managerial record that would have been so good that his election to the Hall Of Fame would have been almost mandatory, because managers with similar records would all be members of the Hall Of Fame and that would MANDATE MURTAUGH'S HOF election as well.
                      [/QUOTE

                      I've made this argument several times. Murtaugh's record was really good, and remember- he took over a team in 1957 that had lost consistently and big time for a full decade, Murtaugh, working with Joe Brown and a fine scouting staff, developed a team that would be in contention almost every year for two decades. Records aside, Murtaugh may be the best manager I ever witnessed- he understood the game, and he understood people. He could be tough, and he could be understanding, and he almost always knew when to go either way. He was comfortable with small ball teams and with slugging teams. He was as good as they come- it's a shame that he hasn't been recognized.
                      I've supported the cause of Danny Murtaugh becoming a Hall Of Famer for a long time.

                      Comment

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