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90% of our Starts were Quality

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  • #16
    Walter Johnson 1913
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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    • #17
      Ron Guidry 1978

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      • #18
        Big Ed Walsh 1906
        Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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        • #19
          Seaver 1969, 1971 or 1973
          Mike Scott 1986
          Feller 1940 or 1946

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          • #20
            All incorrect.

            The season in question happened between 1970 and 1995
            My top 10 players:

            1. Babe Ruth
            2. Barry Bonds
            3. Ty Cobb
            4. Ted Williams
            5. Willie Mays
            6. Alex Rodriguez
            7. Hank Aaron
            8. Honus Wagner
            9. Lou Gehrig
            10. Mickey Mantle

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            • #21
              Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
              Koufax is incorrect.
              In 1965 koufax started 41 games. 35 were "quality starts". In one of the "non-quality" starts Koufax pitched 5 2/3 innings, giving up 2 earned runs. He was removed from the game with a pulled leg muscle. in another "non-quality start" he pitched 8 innings, gave up 4 earned runs. By a slightly different- perhaps more logical?- interpretation of "quality start", Koufax would have had 37 out of 41, over 90%. Of course, several other pitchers might also have approached/passed 90% with broader interpretations, too. Just pointing out some of the arbitrariness of this strange stat.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by BigRon View Post
                In 1965 koufax started 41 games. 35 were "quality starts". In one of the "non-quality" starts Koufax pitched 5 2/3 innings, giving up 2 earned runs. He was removed from the game with a pulled leg muscle. in another "non-quality start" he pitched 8 innings, gave up 4 earned runs. By a slightly different- perhaps more logical?- interpretation of "quality start", Koufax would have had 37 out of 41, over 90%. Of course, several other pitchers might also have approached/passed 90% with broader interpretations, too. Just pointing out some of the arbitrariness of this strange stat.
                Personally, I don't think QS is all that good as it's laid out. I'd rather see it 6 IP / 2.5 ER instead of the 3 ER, which projects to a 4.50 ERA over a nine-inning start. Sure, considering baseball averages 4.4 or so runs a game by an average offense, it gives the pitcher a 50/50 chance for a win, but do I call that quality? Hardly. To me, the word quality means much better than average, and the 3.75 pro-rated ERA with a 2.5 line is much easier to swallow as quality IMO.
                "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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                • #23
                  John Tudor 1985.
                  "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
                    Personally, I don't think QS is all that good as it's laid out. I'd rather see it 6 IP / 2.5 ER instead of the 3 ER, which projects to a 4.50 ERA over a nine-inning start. Sure, considering baseball averages 4.4 or so runs a game by an average offense, it gives the pitcher a 50/50 chance for a win, but do I call that quality? Hardly. To me, the word quality means much better than average, and the 3.75 pro-rated ERA with a 2.5 line is much easier to swallow as quality IMO.
                    I don't disagree, it's just that it's impossible to give up 2.5 runs in a start. It has to be 3 ER or else you have to go down to 2 ER (3.00 ERA). Quality Starts certainly isn't a good stat - it's pretty crappy actually - but I think it's actually better than Wins, not that that's saying much. Someone can give up 9 runs and still earn a win. At least QS tells you that the pitcher did a somewhat decent job at run-prevention and gave you some length.

                    John Tudor is incorrect.
                    My top 10 players:

                    1. Babe Ruth
                    2. Barry Bonds
                    3. Ty Cobb
                    4. Ted Williams
                    5. Willie Mays
                    6. Alex Rodriguez
                    7. Hank Aaron
                    8. Honus Wagner
                    9. Lou Gehrig
                    10. Mickey Mantle

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                      I don't disagree, it's just that it's impossible to give up 2.5 runs in a start. It has to be 3 ER or else you have to go down to 2 ER (3.00 ERA). Quality Starts certainly isn't a good stat - it's pretty crappy actually - but I think it's actually better than Wins, not that that's saying much. Someone can give up 9 runs and still earn a win. At least QS tells you that the pitcher did a somewhat decent job at run-prevention and gave you some length.
                      Totally agree with you in that aspect. While I'm not 100% stats, as I do believe there's a very good parallel using both the eye test along with a good stat sense to evaluate players. Though there are many I've never seen - or very little - I need to rely more on statistics to see a player's value.

                      This is where I think the divide stems from. The most vocal, whether from the left or right (stats suck vs stats are the only way to measure), both stand hard on their issues. I firmly believe that mixing the two when applicable is the best way to evaluate a player, but that's an argument for another day. Regardless, I think Quality Start is overstating the value of said statistic. To me, it's more like Average Start or something like that - pure semantics of course. And yes, a pitcher cannot give up 2.5 runs realistically. But why not change the 6 IP to 7 IP? That brings the ERA down to 3.8 or so - much closer to "Quality" for my taste.
                      "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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                      • #26
                        Randy Johnson? Say '95 or '97?
                        "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
                          Randy Johnson? Say '95 or '97?
                          Randy Johnson is incorrect.
                          My top 10 players:

                          1. Babe Ruth
                          2. Barry Bonds
                          3. Ty Cobb
                          4. Ted Williams
                          5. Willie Mays
                          6. Alex Rodriguez
                          7. Hank Aaron
                          8. Honus Wagner
                          9. Lou Gehrig
                          10. Mickey Mantle

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Curses! What about Dutch Leonard that year he had the 0.96 ERA? 1914 I think, or maybe 1915.
                            "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
                              Curses! What about Dutch Leonard that year he had the 0.96 ERA? 1914 I think, or maybe 1915.
                              Like I said, the last one happened between 1970 and 1995.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Some guesses:

                                Kevin Appier 1993
                                Brett Saberhagen 1989
                                Kevin Brown 1996
                                Nolan Ryan 1981
                                Roger Clemens 1990
                                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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