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  • Laroche

    Laroche really made a splash in the second half last year. I think he can be fantastic if he hits like that the whole year. How do you think he stacks up with other 1B in the league? Here's a good comparison (excluding Pujols, Howard, and Berkman of course! LOL)

    http://atlbravesworld.blogspot.com

  • #2
    my provlem i that he's anit-clutch. he racks up great stats in game that are already won or lost. he does a serviceble job though.
    Stay Away From Downed Power Lines.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tarheelfan44
      my provlem i that he's anit-clutch. he racks up great stats in game that are already won or lost. he does a serviceble job though.
      "Anti-clutch"? Please. You actually believe in that?
      46 wins to match last year's total

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Tarheelfan44
        my provlem i that he's anit-clutch. he racks up great stats in game that are already won or lost. he does a serviceble job though.
        Are you serious?
        BEWARE OF LONNIE

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan
          "Anti-clutch"? Please. You actually believe in that?
          You mean choking? Seems like the same thing -- you don't believe in players choking?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bravediehard33
            Are you serious?
            Laroche did have a good 2nd half but I want to see him produce all year. I also would like to see him become more clutch. It is absolutely true that Laroche is not very clutch.
            4th Member of the Peter Moylan Fan Club!!!! :gt

            Creator of the Guess The Player Game
            http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=63675

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            • #7
              Originally posted by EvanAparra
              You mean choking? Seems like the same thing -- you don't believe in players choking?
              I guess Adam LaRoche is a bad baseball player then, if he can't get on base or drive in runners when he has to, eh?

              That's why I say I hate the term "anti-clutch", because that's exactly what comes to mind.
              46 wins to match last year's total

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan
                I guess Adam LaRoche is a bad baseball player then, if he can't get on base or drive in runners when he has to, eh?

                That's why I say I hate the term "anti-clutch", because that's exactly what comes to mind.
                What are you talkng about? i just asked if you didn't believe in players choking.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by EvanAparra
                  What are you talkng about? i just asked if you didn't believe in players choking.
                  Actually, no, I don't. I do believe that players can be affected by a situation, but a "choking" player assumes that they have some kind of personal shortcoming that makes them lose composure and talent in situations where they must get a hit. Usually, I just gauge on what I believe a player can do or has recently done and invest hope accordingly.

                  Like I rarely count on Jeff Francoeur to do anything right at the plate, for instance.

                  I think that "clutch" and "choking" are entirely relative in the first place, if you believe in it.
                  46 wins to match last year's total

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                  • #10
                    I think the "clutch" argument is overrated.

                    Players are called "clutch" after they hit an RBI single in the 9th inning after striking out 3 earlier times. People are considered "chokers" when they strikeout in the 9th inning but hit two singles in their 3 previous at-bats (hypothetical situations).

                    It seems like more weight and emphasis is put on late inning situations. When in fact, the same production at an earlier point would make it so the later situation is less important. A run is a run and all runs are the same regardless of when they were scored.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rapmaster
                      I think the "clutch" argument is overrated.

                      Players are called "clutch" after they hit an RBI single in the 9th inning after striking out 3 earlier times. People are considered "chokers" when they strikeout in the 9th inning but hit two singles in their 3 previous at-bats (hypothetical situations).

                      It seems like more weight and emphasis is put on late inning situations. When in fact, the same production at an earlier point would make it so the later situation is less important. A run is a run and all runs are the same regardless of when they were scored.
                      I think of clutch more so in terms of runners on base than late innings. Although late innings are of course crucial. Getting a bases loaded single compared to a single with nobody on is clutch.
                      4th Member of the Peter Moylan Fan Club!!!! :gt

                      Creator of the Guess The Player Game
                      http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=63675

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                      • #12
                        http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=2656
                        http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/gra...ullclutch.html

                        The statistical studies of clutch have supported this point. David Grabiner did the seminal work more than a decade ago, defining clutch as performance in the late innings of close games. From the article:
                        The correlation between past and current clutch performance is .01, with a standard deviation of .07. In other words, there isn't a significant ability in clutch hitting; if there were, the same players would be good clutch hitters every year.
                        A study by Ron Johnson, which is not currently online but is quoted here, covered a 15-year period and concluded that just two players, Paul Molitor and Tony Fernandez met the statistical criteria to be considered clutch hitters. (Johnson didn't argue that the two had this trait, just that of the players in the study, they were the only two whose performance with runners in scoring position showed a statistically significant improvement.)

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                        • #13
                          I think some people can't get past the mother's day incident.


                          I for one do not want to see him go.
                          Baseball Journeyman

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AznInvasion
                            I think of clutch more so in terms of runners on base than late innings. Although late innings are of course crucial. Getting a bases loaded single compared to a single with nobody on is clutch.
                            I do hold statistics regarding runners on base with slight importance.

                            But late innings, I think it's a draw. Let's say Ortiz hits a three-run homer in the bottom of the ninth, leading the BoSox to victory 6-5. Let's say the other three runs was by a homerun in the first inning by Manny. Now Manny is brought down using the "clutch" argument at times and Ortiz is glorified by that same argument.

                            Now Manny's homerun had exactly the same impact on the outcome as Ortiz's. Ortiz's just looks more important given the situation. Without Manny's homerun, the Sox lose 5-3. Better yet, let's say Manny homers in the first and Ortiz in the fourth, Sox win 6-5. Ortiz strikes out in the ninth with two on, the Sox still win.

                            What I'm saying is, late inning pressure situations don't hold a special significance. It's an at-bat, just as the other ones they had before the later innings. Runs don't count as double in later innings or anything like that.

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                            • #15
                              tight, but then we see laroche hitting many a 2-run shot when we're up something like 2-6, and then people start overvaluing him because they look at his stats and see 30 hr's instead of seeing how many of them actually mattered with in the frame of the game.

                              he's a good player who could definetley be a solid player in the future, however it wouldn'yt bother me a bit to see him gone.
                              Stay Away From Downed Power Lines.

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